Author Topic: Sowerby glass cups  (Read 969 times)

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Offline mhgcgolfclub

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Sowerby glass cups
« on: December 11, 2012, 09:23:51 PM »
A nice find today a set of 6 Sowerby small cups all in pristine condition date lozenge for 1st Jan 1875. Hard to believe that they could have survived altogether for 137 years or so.

Roy


Offline Paul S.

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Re: Sowerby glass cups
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2012, 01:13:39 PM »
Nice find Roy  -  but do you not think that part of the reason for their surviving complete could be because they were pressed much later than 1875.         Unfortunately, I can't shove the Sowerby CD into the pc and check to see for how long this item was available - machine no behaving. :'(     


Offline mhgcgolfclub

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Re: Sowerby glass cups
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2012, 11:32:13 AM »
Paul I be very interested to know how long the cups were made for as I do not have there Sowerby CD,s maybe I should invest in them if that information is included. I seem to be more of a book person.

Thanks Roy


Offline Paul S.

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Re: Sowerby glass cups
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2012, 11:43:02 AM »
for collectors of pressed glass, the three volume CD set is invaluable - although they deal with Sowerby only of course.   
The information is based on the detailed work and research of Glen and Stephen Thistlewood and covers the whole of the Sowerby period.
My comments were based on the obvious fact that probably all pressed glass makers offered most of their designs/patterns for longer than the initial year of registration  -  and in some instances for many years afterwards.
I'll see if I can get my discs to work :)


Offline Paul S.

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Re: Sowerby glass cups
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2012, 03:37:07 PM »
o.k. we're in business Roy.

The earliest that I can find this item is in the Sowerby Illustrated Pattern Book No. XI dated 1885 -  lower half of page 14 under the heading of 'Cans and Seidels; Custards and Jellies' - obviously it was sold as a Custard.     The pattern/design No. for this frosted finish with flower decoration is 1088, and the same No. also covers a slightly taller item with similar decoration which is presumably the jelly (as the handle is absent).    Both the jelly and custard are accompanied by the image of a diamond lozenge.

On page 31 of the same Pattern Book, the identical decoration is shown on what are described as 'Finger Cups' (possibly what we might now describe as finger bowls).  -  and these are designated as pattern/design Nos. 1074 and 1074.1/2  -  these also are shown linked to design lozenges.

Whether this design is shown in print earlier than 1885, I don't know  -  although it will of course be in the Registers at Kew.

The only subsequent catalogue that I can see which illustrates the custard cup is Pattern Book XV dated September 1895 (page 27)  -  always possible that the absence of these items from later catalogues was due to a lack of demand - perhaps the 'custard cup' had had its day.

What might be the reason for the diamond lozenge being shown against this particular pattern/design - although obviously I'm aware that lozenges are shown against others in the catalogue.

Ref.      CD format of 'Sowerby's Ellison Glass Works - Volum Three - A Celebration of Sowerby'.         Glen & Stephen Thistlewood 


Offline Sid

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Re: Sowerby glass cups
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2012, 08:33:24 PM »
What might be the reason for the diamond lozenge being shown against this particular pattern/design - although obviously I'm aware that lozenges are shown against others in the catalogue.

Paul

The lozenge is Sowerby's method of indicating that the pattern was registered and also provides the date of registration.  Pattern number 1074 is consistent with an 1875 registration date.

We will never be certain whether the appearance of this item in the 1895 pattern book means that it was still being made 20 years after its introduction or whether the firm was selling stock made years earlier.  I lean to the latter.

Sid


Offline Paul S.

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Re: Sowerby glass cups
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2012, 10:16:53 PM »
hello Sid  -  I'm conversant generally with the meaning and reasons of the lozenge, having spent many hours with a magnifying glass and lumps of blue tack and carbon paper trying to decypher the individual digits etc. :)          I understand you to be saying that it is only those items that are accompanied, in the catalogue, by a lozenge, that were in fact actually registered by Sowerby with the British Board of Trade.       Put round the other way, all those items in the catalogue, not accompanied by a lozenge, will not have been registered offcially, and can be located in factory records only  -  a big setback given that factory catalogues from the C19 or early C20 are sometimes missing.
This situation can sometime provide disappointment for the researcher - who naturally would have wished that all factories had officially registered every design/pattern they produced ;D

thanks for your help.


Offline agincourt17

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Re: Sowerby glass cups
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2012, 05:20:41 PM »
The Thistlewood Sowerby CD-ROM pattern book XI (1885) shows pattern 1088 in the following shapes with the same features of stipple frosting and raised flower motif to the sides, but sometimes the stippling is in panels (as the custard cups) and sometimes stippled overall (no panels); sometimes the top rims are plain, sometimes beaded, and sometimes reeded; all are shown with lozenges against the illustrations:

Page 5      butter dish        no panels
Page 14    custards        panels      plain top rim
Page 57    covered sugar     no panels   reeded top rim

I also have a creamer/jug and a pedestal sugar bowl (photos below) in the same pattern (both with lozenge for 1 January 1875 – parcel 2, corresponding to RD 288210), neither of which seem to be illustrated in the 1885 catalogue.

Neither Thompson nor Cottle has a design description for RD 288210, but it must surely have been for the decoration rather than the shape.

Sowerby patterns 1074/1074½/1074¾  appear in pattern book XI (1885) always with stippled sides (sometimes in panels and sometimes not), with varying top rims or decoration, and mostly (though not always) with a lozenge.

Page 11   butter middle   panels      beaded top rim   lozenge
Page 11   biscuit (small)   no panels           reeded top rim      lozenge
Page 11   biscuit (large)   panels      plain top rim      lozenge
Page 19   comport      panels      beaded top rim   lozenge
Page 26   dishes      panels      beaded top rim
Page 31   finger cups   panels      plain top rim      lozenge
Page 32   flower pot   no panels           reeded top rim      lozenge
Page 35   honey pot   no panels           reeded top rim      lozenge
Page 38   plate      no panels                             lozenge
Page 38   plate      panels      beaded decoration   lozenge
Page 57   covered sugar   panels      beaded top rim    lozenge

See photo of the 1074 comport (as on page 19). This bears the lozenge for 22 April 1874 – Parcel 8 (corresponding to RD 281933). Presumably the other 1074 pieces have the same lozenge, and so would also appear to have been to a design registered in 1874.

Only the finger cups on page 31 have the raised flower motif to the sides. I wonder if these have simply been mis-labelled in the catalogue, and should perhaps have been shown as pattern 1088 also?


Offline agincourt17

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Re: Sowerby glass cups
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2012, 05:38:25 PM »
Photo of a tumbler with stipple frosted sides [no panels] and plain top (so some of the same features as pattern 1074),  but which bears the lozenge for 10 September 1874 (corresponding to RD 285016 - Parcel 6), shown in the registration details as a tumbler shape. I can’t find a corresponding Sowerby pattern number for it.


Offline mhgcgolfclub

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Re: Sowerby glass cups
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2012, 03:09:55 PM »
Thanks all for all the extra information.

Roy

 

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