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Author Topic: Monart ! WMF ? or something else  (Read 1577 times)

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Offline Gary

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Monart ! WMF ? or something else
« on: December 13, 2012, 05:57:21 PM »
Seen this on ebay, I don't believe (IMHO) that it is a Monart piece. Does anyone have an idea of the maker.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Extremely-Rare-Art-Deco-Bowl-Monart-Glass-John-Moncrieff-LTD-Scotland-30s-/170955731683?pt=UK_Art_Glass&hash=item27cdc172e3
Gary


Offline Greg.

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Re: Monart ! WMF ? or something else
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2012, 06:08:27 PM »
Not really my area, although my first thoughts were WMF Ikora...


Offline chopin-liszt

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Re: Monart ! WMF ? or something else
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2012, 06:41:40 PM »
I don't think the colour has come out well in their pics - if the last two (before the chip pics) are better representative of it, then I reckon it is Monart.
There's a MASSIVE cylinder vase in this colourway in Perth Museum - just about my favourite bit of Monart.
However, this bit up for auction has a horrendous price on it - and it's damaged.
Cheers, Sue (M)

“All things are subject to interpretation. Whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.” Friedrich Nietzsche


Offline Frank

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Re: Monart ! WMF ? or something else
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2012, 07:04:24 PM »
Price is a bit steep although it is stunning and the chip is not a problem. Very nice.  Imagine how it would change if it had been twisted after the dip mould as was normally done.

Must have gone to Germany in the days when people use to say about Monart  "What is this..." reply "WMF Ikora".
Frank A.
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Offline Gary

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Re: Monart ! WMF ? or something else
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2012, 07:39:17 PM »
If this a Monart piece what catalogue shape would it be.
The link below shows a WMF Ikora bowl with the same colours as the bowl on ebay.
http://www.schuerenberg.com/en/gallery/glass/arde/wmf/data/00505/index.html
Gary


Offline KevinH

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Re: Monart ! WMF ? or something else
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2012, 01:40:44 AM »
As Sue said, the eBay photos appear to show conflicting colours. If I was interested in that item, I would make sure that I have seen a fresh set of photos, preferably taken in daylight.

As it stands, Gary's link to the WMF bowl does tie in well with the colours in some of the eBay images. But in the eBay images that show a red, rather than orange, colour, there appears to be a strong similarity with the red in one of my Salvador Ysart Inkwells which may well be Ysart Brothers, "Vasart" but perhaps using an original Monart red.
KevinH


Offline chopin-liszt

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Re: Monart ! WMF ? or something else
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2012, 11:44:51 AM »
If it is Monart,  (which I believe it is - but I'm not "au fait" with the catalogues, Gary - I just look at the glass.)
the colours should be much more muted than in the pics - more like the 2 photos towards the end.

It's not a bright, "in-your-face" cobalt blue - it's paler and subtle. It's not any bright red or orange either, but a slightly yellowy ambery, burnt orange. I do think there is an example on Scotland's glass - I'll have a browse.

Nearest is 70a. The blue is the correct shade - but the "green" isn't. It's definitely a palish burnt orange.
Do you know the piece I'm talking about Gary? It's MASSIVE - and just a simple straight cylinder shape - non catalogue.
It's years since I've seen it, my memory might be playing tricks on me, it would have been perhaps, 5-6 inches in diameter and well over a foot tall - maybe as much as 18-20". Nearly an umbrella stand!
Cheers, Sue (M)

“All things are subject to interpretation. Whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.” Friedrich Nietzsche


Offline Frank

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Re: Monart ! WMF ? or something else
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2012, 12:45:07 PM »
Shape is based on FH IG ish. Orange looks mostly fine except where it looks too red in later images. Blue is fine too. Doubt it is pre-war colours though. The red (as it appears in photos) reminds me of some Vasart colours.
Frank A.
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Offline Gary

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Re: Monart ! WMF ? or something else
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2012, 09:14:09 PM »
Shape is based on FH IG ish.
I take it you mean the shape of the bowl is not in the Monart catalogue. When you say based on the Monart shapes FH and IG the only thing that they have in common is the shaped foot, both FH and IG shapes have a folded rim the bowl on ebay does not.
The third image is the shape IG from my collection,I have not got a FH shape in my collection so I can't post an image.

I don't think the colour has come out well in their pics - if the last two (before the chip pics) are better representative of it, then I reckon it is Monart.
There's a MASSIVE cylinder vase in this colourway in Perth Museum - just about my favourite bit of Monart.
However, this bit up for auction has a horrendous price on it - and it's damaged.
On my last visit to Perth museum I photographed every piece of Monart the museum have in their reserve collection apart from a few Y shape pin dishes.
The only cylinder vase they have is the one shown below. which just over 12 inches tall and the colours are blue, green and citron with bubble inclusions. The first image is without a flash the second image is with a flash.
Both Frank and chopin liszt seem to have differing views on the true colouring of the bowl so meantime we must go with the vendor description ie blue and orange. I intend to email the vendor re the provenance and if he believes his images are a true represention of the colours of his bowl.
Gary


Offline chopin-liszt

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Re: Monart ! WMF ? or something else
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2012, 11:35:35 AM »
It took us about 4 visits to see the reserve collection, Gary - Fiona only brought out about 16 pieces each visit.
It was also a good number of years ago, and photographs don't always do glass justice (!!!!!), but that cylinder you've shown does not match the cylinder in my memory!

The one in my memory (which is prone to flights of fancy - as is everybody's) was straight - no flare at the top, no wide base. It was very, very bubbly, it was like 70a, but burnt orange instead of green. I'm fairly sure it was blue at the bottom and the warm burnt orange at the top.
Cheers, Sue (M)

“All things are subject to interpretation. Whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.” Friedrich Nietzsche

 

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