Author Topic: Sowerby pattern 1054 comport – registration details of design, please?  (Read 551 times)

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Offline agincourt17

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A Sowerby comport, 8 inches top diameter, pattern number 1054  (page 19 of Sowerby pattern book XI, 1885 – ref.: Vol. 3 Thistlewood Sowerby CD-ROM). The comport came in 4 sizes (5˝, 8, 9 and 10 inch).

Shown in the pattern book as being a registered design, and this example does have an indecipherable lozenge registry mark.

Does a GMB member have an example of this comport (or any other of the pattern 1054 pieces) with clearly visible registry marks ? (The Sowerby 1054 service is shown on page 2 of the Sowerby pattern book XV, September 1895 – ref. Vol. 1 Thistlewood Sowerby CD-ROM).  If so, could they let me have the details, please, so that I can trace the precise RD number of the series design? The registration date would almost certainly have been no later than 1874.

(Permission for the re-use of this image on GMB granted by neilliz12).


Offline Paul S.

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Re: Sowerby pattern 1054 comport – registration details of design, please?
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2012, 05:21:35 PM »
not able to help at the moment.        The only pressed glass author that I'm aware of who has shown the corresponding Sowerby pattern No. alongside the Board of Trade Registration Nos., is Cottle - and unfortunately his list is incomplete, and starts with pattern 1135 of 6th March 1876 - which is obviously later than pattern 1054.                                Don't know why this author included only some of the Pattern Nos.

Suppose when you think about it, there is a lot of usefulness in having both Nos. in one publication.     Several authors provide the Parcel No., which is possibly because this was included as part of the information in the Board of Trade Registers.

I've checked the facsimile pages in Thompson with the number and dates of Sowerby Registrations as given in Cottle - and they match in quantity and date etc. - there are 17 separate Rd. Nos. starting in February 1872 (which is apparently the first Registratin made by Sowerby).
If your assumption is correct..........."The registration date would almost certainly have been no later than 1874.".................then Pattern 1054 must be one of these.

Haven't a clue as to which exact No. Sowerby started with -  and since they'd been producing glass for a long time before 1872 - presumably their first No. wasn't No. 001, or similar.                    If you look at Cottle's list - the Pattern Nos. don't run neatly and consecutively, so probably not something that can be estimated even half accurately.
If it were possibly to narrow down to half a dozen Rd. Nos., I'd be happy to take a punt at Kew one day and try to pinpoint the data.

Having said all this, someone may now come in and tell us exactly what the correct details are :)



Offline Paul S.

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Re: Sowerby pattern 1054 comport – registration details of design, please?
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2012, 05:25:06 PM »
apologies, there was an incomplete sentence......................"there are 17 separate Rd. Nos. starting in February 1872 (which is apparently the first Registratin made by Sowerby)."               this was supposed to have continued as..............."and the end of 1874"


Offline Sid

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Re: Sowerby pattern 1054 comport – registration details of design, please?
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2012, 05:38:03 PM »
Hello

High resolution scans (600 dpi or higher) of the original pattern book would be very helpful to see if the registration lozenges actually have the date specific information required to assign a pattern or line to a registration.

Sid


Offline Paul S.

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Re: Sowerby pattern 1054 comport – registration details of design, please?
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2012, 07:45:03 PM »
I had already thought of something similar, although I don't know whereabouts in the U.K. the original pattern books are.......possibly in The National Archives or maybe more likely at Broadfield House Museum.      I have a facsimile of book No. IX (1882) - which assume the same format as other pattern books i.e. printed - and copies of individual pages (showing diamonds) can be seen  -  in Thompson for example.
Of course, the original books may have been hand written, and so may well show specific information.

I've tried looking with a high power lens at the diamonds in several of the books - Thompson and Cottle - and it seems to me that the squiggles showing in each of the lozenges look identical (not possible to be certain what they are though) - so it may well be that the printer  simply illustrated all of the diamonds showing the same illegible marks - which would make sense since it would be more cost effective than providing separate information for each pattern.       
In Thompson all of the diamonds seem to show - clockwise from the top..........25 (day) - L (for 1882) - R (for August) and figure 9 for the Parcel No.., but as I say, there is some guesswork in this. 


Offline agincourt17

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Re: Sowerby pattern 1054 comport – registration details of design, please?
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2012, 09:34:53 PM »
Thank you, Paul and Sid, for your inputs.

My original query was posted to help me with a project I am pursuing in association with helping to build the GMB RD numbers photo database.

As Paul indicates, Simon Cottle (in ‘Sowerby – Gateshead Glass’ , Tyne and Wear Museum Services, 1986) shows some Sowerby pattern numbers alongside the RD numbers, but that the list is far from complete, and only the Sowerby pattern book IX (1882) is illustrated as an entity with drawings of the pieces with their the pattern numbers. The pattern book IX (1882) illustrations do not indicate which of the pattern numbers relate to registered designs, and a few of the Cottle list pattern number references are to pattern books VIII and XI (neither of which is illustrated in the book).

From the other angle, the Thistlewood Sowerby CD-ROM catalogues usually show the Sowerby pieces with their pattern numbers, but rarely with the corresponding RD numbers. Not surprisngly, the list of Sowerby pattern numbers in CD-ROM Volume 3 is far from complete, and only some have photographs associated. As you both say, the ‘nominal’ registration lozenge motif alongside the pattern numbers in the various pattern books is useful as an indicator of a design registration, but no real use in providing precise registration details 

So, to fill in some of the gaps in both these important references, I’m currently beginning to build a separate database linking Sowerby RD numbers with their Sowerby pattern book numbers, and also trying to muster representative photographs of the relevant pieces showing as many size, shape and variations as possible, thereby filling in some of the gaps in both Cottle’s book and the Thistlewood Sowerby CD-ROMs. 

At the same time, I’m also trying to assemble a collection of photos assigning Sowerby pattern numbers to unregistered designs.

Please bear with me, therefore, if there seem to be a lot of my topics posted in this section regarding links between Sowerby registrations and their pattern book numbers. I hope to be able to collate what details I currently have with photos on three related photo galleries with open access for all in the near future.


 

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