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Author Topic: Feel like ive found gold!!! But what is it any ideas welcome!!!  (Read 1059 times)

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Offline azelismia

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Re: Feel like ive found gold!!! But what is it any ideas welcome!!!
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2012, 01:06:17 PM »
I was more addressing a quick overview of the players than suggesting anything specific towards this piece as to the master work or not. In my head I was thinking more like a glass school than master work if it was something other than moser or harrach. But looking at it a little more rationally. (yeah, I admit I was blinded by the subject matter :) ) the quality isn't that high. you're right.  I didn't look at it very closely. I am not even positive that's up to Moser or harrach standards.

the base being entirely covered in pontil scar.. it happens. not the general norm but it happens. Wear.. with this kind of base I am not sure you would see wear. it would sit on the edges of the pontil I am guessing. Even then wear isn't a foolproof indicator of age in either direction.
but yeah, after having a closer look I back away from what I was saying before. Now I am going to say I don't know. I no longer have an opinion on this. Maybe? Maybe not?


Offline flying free

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Re: Feel like ive found gold!!! But what is it any ideas welcome!!!
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2012, 02:04:57 PM »
bfg do you have a pic of the Moser engraved piece you can share at all, just for comparison please?
Glaskillian is it possible to put a roll of white paper inside the tankard and photograph it in natural light side on, so the picture can be seen clearly please?

I absolutely love this tankard and if I'd seen it, I'd definitely have bought it.  The colour combination, the engraved through to clear, the subject matter and also the way the engraving is done, all very pretty to me ( I love the swan,it seems well proportioned with the width of the neck and body etc which often I don't think when I see swans in glass).  The cloud effect in the handle reminds me of Davidson Topaz Brier cloud glass, which is also the amethyst and green and gorgeous imho.
 I've no idea who the maker is, and I'm not suggesting it is Stevens and Williams (or Davidson) at all, but I just wanted to add that I've had a few smaller pieces by Stevens and Williams where the pontil mark was so large it practically covered the base of the piece.  I think this is larger than the base of the pieces I owned of course, but still it appears to be a neat finish.

It may turn out not to be the highest quality piece perhaps, but sometimes beauty is in the making regardless isn't it?  Sometimes a piece has appeal not because of who made it, but just because  :)
m


Offline glasskillian

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Re: Feel like ive found gold!!! But what is it any ideas welcome!!!
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2012, 03:11:28 PM »
Very interesting information im hearing names of companies ive never come across before, I have managed to photograph with a white background inside the mug hope it will help ive also took a fair representation of the edge of the pontil scar which i think shows good wear this pontil is huge and deep and has faint marks going from the centre to the outside of it, You are correct in thinking the jug sits on the edge of this pontil scar. Ive also took a picture of the handle as interestingly it appears to have a red type of oxide or similar around where it joins the glass i thought this might be a repair but it appears to of been added as there is no signs of damage....I still feel in my guts its a 19th century mug mabe a tavern type from who knows? but a mighty preety one maybe a local squire had for when he drank in the local pub im guessing here my knowledge is very limited but im certainy gonna use it over christmas...Thanks for commenting its great to read the information im slowly looking into it..


bfg

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Re: Feel like ive found gold!!! But what is it any ideas welcome!!!
« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2012, 08:38:22 PM »
Link to bowl as requested
....
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,49664.msg280441.html#msg280441

moser are still producing engraved glass tankards as gifts for gentlemen and do do swans, this style is not on their website, possibly an earlier version? Not suggesting bespoke, rather off the shelf?
Mel


Offline krsilber

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Re: Feel like ive found gold!!! But what is it any ideas welcome!!!
« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2012, 09:22:58 PM »
"Sometimes a piece has appeal not because of who made it, but just because " 

Exactly!  It is indeed a beautiful and curious piece!  The swan is very graceful.  I'd have bought it, too, without having any idea who made it, or when.  It is extraordinary in that it's not something you see every day (if ever!).  I don't see any sign of it being cut-to-clear...often unpolished engraving can look that way in photos because of the way light is reflected, while in cut-to-clear you can see the transition from the thinner colored layer to the clear underneath.

Usually when people talk about a pontil scar they mean that you can see the rough area where it was knocked off the rod.  This has had the scar ground out.

Interesting that bfg mentioned his Rowland Ward safari bowl - that's the same kind of thing I was reminded of, not only because of the engraving, but because of the blank.  They sold mugs with a similar shape, but as far as I can tell it was usually colorless glass.  (Here's a thread that talks a bit about the company. http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,662.10.html)  Aren't Moser's also colorless?  Maybe not always.  Hmmm.  I found a line animal-engraved colored glass on the Theresienthal site, but the shape is different.

Unfortunately, trees were executed in a very similar manner by a variety of engravers.  Trees are one of the first things I look at when evaluating engraving of nature scenes.
Kristi


"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science."

- Albert Einstein


Offline azelismia

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Re: Feel like ive found gold!!! But what is it any ideas welcome!!!
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2012, 10:44:44 PM »
meh, you're getting all pendantic on the pontil scar. we all know the process pretty sure. When discussing it in terms such as we are here it's just the easiest way to refer to that portion of the piece. are we really going to say cut and polished pontil scar every single time we want to refer to it? It is still the pontil scar even if it has been polished. I suppose we could start calling it the belly button since it's a mark left from the birth of the piece.  ;D


Offline azelismia

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Re: Feel like ive found gold!!! But what is it any ideas welcome!!!
« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2012, 10:52:48 PM »
Webb also sometimes polished out the entire base in a concave.


Offline krsilber

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Re: Feel like ive found gold!!! But what is it any ideas welcome!!!
« Reply #17 on: December 23, 2012, 02:05:22 AM »
You've got me pegged - I'm a pedant at heart! ;D

" It is still the pontil scar even if it has been polished."  Oh, come now!  Either the scar is there, or it's not.  (Besides, don't you mean "cut"?  The bottoms aren't always polished. ;))

Hmmm.  In the case of a some Bohemian glass there may never have been a pontil scar. Since ground rims were so prevalent, many pieces may not have required attaching to a pontil.  That's pure speculation, but it's relevant to the question of nomenclature.
Kristi


"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science."

- Albert Einstein


Offline Bernard C

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Re: Feel like ive found gold!!! But what is it any ideas welcome!!!
« Reply #18 on: December 23, 2012, 04:50:46 AM »
Kristi Grateful thanks.   Like you, I always look at trees, as artists' interpretation can be so different.   I feel I can go public now without everyone regarding it as evidence that I am one marble short of a fruitcake.

Here's an amazing interpretation by William Hackstoun, not particularly well known, but the leading professional artist (pencil, watercolour and oil) in St. Andrews about a century ago.   His skeletal slice of a tree makes it look as if he has climbed up it and mapped out every twig.   See http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-18280 click image to enlarge.

The point I am attempting to make is that while glass engraving places some quite severe limitations on tree interpretation, some aspects of tree engraving (and moulding see Sowerby's Gathering Apples) could have been influenced by other types of art.   Is there a good readable reference work on this subject?

Bernard C.  8)
Text and Images Copyright 200414 Bernard Cavalot


Offline Bernard C

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Re: Feel like ive found gold!!! But what is it any ideas welcome!!!
« Reply #19 on: December 23, 2012, 11:48:36 PM »
Having spent a day contemplating what I said, I realised this evening that an essential piece of information was missing on Hackstoun, illustrated with just this one example of his work.   It is that all his trees were painted this way, including trees in leaf, which he started as skeletal slices and then added colour, sometimes almost completely obliterating the underlying skeleton.

Sorry about that.   I hope it makes sense now.

Bernard C.  8)
Text and Images Copyright 200414 Bernard Cavalot

 

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