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Author Topic: Old pink opaline egg cup  (Read 1044 times)

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Offline Anne E.B.

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Old pink opaline egg cup
« on: January 01, 2013, 08:53:55 PM »
This came with a lot of Victorian glass (one of a set of four).  I was thinking it might possibly be French ??? It doesn't match any Vallerysthal Portieux shaped egg cups that I can find however.  It has a flat polished base, and flat ground rim - 2½" high.  Lots of age related wear on base and top rim.
Any ideas/suggestions would be greatly welcome ;)
Anne E.B


Offline keith

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Re: Old pink opaline egg cup
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2013, 12:42:45 AM »
First thought was Stevens & Williams alabaster but is that cased? looks like it from the top picture, ;D ;D


Offline Paul S.

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Re: Old pink opaline egg cup
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2013, 09:46:58 AM »
Hello Anne :)  -  attractive egg cup.             Is this slightly translucent, and if held up to a strong light can you see the opaline 'sunset glow'?


Offline Anne E.B.

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Re: Old pink opaline egg cup
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2013, 10:17:24 AM »
Morning folks. Thanks for your speedy replies  :-*
It is cased and appears to have 3 layers, i.e. a wider layer of paler pink on the inside, a much thinner darker pink layer on the outside, and a very thin line/layer of what looks like clear in the centre.  I did check to see if it was opalescent, which it isn't as there is absolutely no firey glow, but it is translucent and darker shapes can be seen through the glass when held to the light.

Is Stevens & Williams' alabaster non-opalescent?  I did do a search of S.&.W. pink, but it all seemed to be opalescent with a firey glow, so crossed them off the list.  French was my next thought, but the shape is much simpler than the Portieux ones, which all seem to have a thinner stem with a knop of some sort. 

I think I might have a full set here, as my sets of modern day ceramic and plastic ones are all sets of four ???  ;D  They are very pretty what ever they are.

n.b. I will take another image, as in daylight they are much paler than the first ones taken.
Anne E.B


Offline Anne E.B.

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Re: Old pink opaline egg cup
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2013, 10:24:22 AM »
Taken in daylight.
Anne E.B


Offline Lustrousstone

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Re: Old pink opaline egg cup
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2013, 10:30:21 AM »
Italian? Nason? Just a thought


Offline chopin-liszt

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Re: Old pink opaline egg cup
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2013, 10:49:07 AM »
The foot is very Nazeing...
Cheers, Sue (M)

“All things are subject to interpretation. Whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.” Friedrich Nietzsche


Offline Paul S.

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Re: Old pink opaline egg cup
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2013, 03:53:45 PM »
According to 'The Crystal Years', S & W alabaster is cased  but, unlike these pieces, doesn't have 'layers' that can be seen.     Neither does it (alabaster) have a sunset glow, so definitely  not opaline.      I have only one piece (in blue), and it's not easy to see the separate clear casing.   Again, according to the book, rose and blue were colours used  "extensively for toilet and bathroom accessories".   
Thats not to say the colour of these egg cups is dissimilar to  S & W 'rose' (from the alabaster range) - but I guess many factories knocked out something similar along the lines of a rosy-pink.

Taking a rather uneducated guess, I'd suggest that the colour texture of these is too uniform to be Nazeing  -  and I've looked through Geoff. Timberlake's book and can't see any mention of egg cups ;D

There's good reason for thinking that flat bottoms and ground rims suggest these are Continental, but they may well remain without positive attribution.          Lustrousstone's suggestion may well be correct.


Offline flying free

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Re: Old pink opaline egg cup
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2013, 06:07:33 PM »
Paul did you mean not having a sunset glow means it isn't opalescent? or is it a requirement for it to glow red when held up to light for it to be opaline  :-\  The sunset glow means it contains bone ash I thought?  Opaline can be made with or without bone ash iirc.
Anne I've had very old and new eggcup sets and all have been 4 cups so I think your set is complete  :)
I'm just curious about it being pale glass cased with darker glass.  Is that still called opaline?
Either way they are absolutely gorgeous!
m


Offline Paul S.

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Re: Old pink opaline egg cup
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2013, 08:05:42 PM »
hello m............I've just gone through all my books looking again at entries for opaline and opalescent - and am confused.    However, I suspect you are better informed than me on this subject.            I also think that some authors have muddied the waters along the way - and I get the impression that the original Baccarat product which they called 'opalin' didn't show a sunset glow.

my opinion is that if the piece is without the suset glow, then it isn't opalescent, and I don't have a problem with that, and had got into the habit of using the word 'opalescent' when referring to non-coloured products only i.e. Jobling's 'Opalique' and the bulk of Sabino and Lalique etc. (these all have a sunset glow) - so cannot be anything other than opalescent).

I also possess a number of coloured pieces which show the sunset glow, but seem to remember that when the piece is coloured I was told to call it 'opaline' and not 'opalescent'.
In the famous French 'bulle de savon' and 'gorge-de-pigeon (both opaline products), how are the colours produced  -  calcined animal ashes??

As I understand it, the opalescent effect seen in some of the famous pressed pieces from Manchester in the C19 would, as you say, have been produced using calcined animal bones and arsenic, although later similar products like Jobling's 'opalique' did away with the calcined bones and substituted a chemical composition of phosphates (but still included the arsenic).

Too many manufacturers have used words, or variations, on opalescent/opal/opaline - each with their own interpretation.

Harold Newman (dictionary) says ..........................Opaline - opacified with ashes of calcined bones and coloured with metallic oxides
Mark West says .............................when an opaline piece is held up to the light it is possible to see a red and orange tint, known as 'fire'.
Raymond Knotley says (speaking of opalescent)..................If glass of a uniform thickness was used, an even opalescent effect was produced and was called 'opaline'.

Did you mean to say ................opaline can be made with or without the sunset glow?              In order to simplify the matter, and to get back to the definition of Baccarat's orginal product, perhaps we should adopt the word opaline to cover only those pieces without a fiery glow, and to reserve the word opalescent for those which do.

P.S.     Re a set of four egg cups................. what happens if Mum and Dad have three children  -  who is forced to go without their boiled egg and toast soldiers ;)


 

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