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Author Topic: Elaborately Decorated Vase (way over the top)  (Read 1465 times)

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Offline keith

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Re: Elaborately Decorated Vase (way over the top)
« Reply #30 on: January 30, 2014, 12:10:11 AM »
My only piece,looks a bit familiar eh m ?  ;D ;D


Offline flying free

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Re: Elaborately Decorated Vase (way over the top)
« Reply #31 on: January 31, 2014, 09:15:13 AM »
yes :)
Kev, is the one you are referring to in Manley, the one that features on the front cover of the second book?
If so I can see what you mean about the muted colours, although the only pic I can find is a small indistinct one.  I haven't got the book bu I was wondering if the colours look so muted because the gilding has worn to a brownish colour though?
m


Offline KevinH

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Re: Elaborately Decorated Vase (way over the top)
« Reply #32 on: January 31, 2014, 01:14:52 PM »
Yes, m, the front cover image shows the Item 185 square topped vase in Manley's book. However, the front cover image is darker than the actual Item 185 image, which may or may not be a bit too bright!!.

Looking at the Item 185 photo very closely, it is clear that the pale blue originally had an all over gilded floral style decoration which is very rubbed. Also, the full gilding for the background of the main decorative elements is what makes the whole thing look less colourful or more subdued (in my opinion).

I now think that there are several similarities with the items pictured in this thread:
a) The main blue colour is probably the same as in some of the other pieces
b) There is black bordering with white dots
c) There are curved, darker blue and green enamelled elements in the main decoration
d) The band of colour around the rim appears "washed out", which is what I feel about some of the colours in the other items

Whether all of the items discussed here are from the same period is, I think, open for debate. But the Manley item is very rubbed in a way that suggests "good age".
KevinH


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Re: Elaborately Decorated Vase (way over the top)
« Reply #33 on: January 31, 2014, 01:41:12 PM »
Interesting and thanks - is it pictured any clearer in the book at all please?
m


Offline KevinH

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Re: Elaborately Decorated Vase (way over the top)
« Reply #34 on: January 31, 2014, 02:09:06 PM »
Sorry, m, please see my (edited) comments above, which were added while you posted yours.
KevinH


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Re: Elaborately Decorated Vase (way over the top)
« Reply #35 on: January 31, 2014, 03:11:33 PM »
Thank you :) 
Interesting observations, and I'm glad you've expanded on that -  I didn't like to say anything on first looking  at the cover pic of item 185, but as soon as I saw that vase, my instinct was it is from the same 'stable'/'region' as those on this thread.

I agree, the age of the items is up for debate and it could transpire that some could be older than others.  I've also thought it could also be possible that  these are all old, and that on the ones where the gilt has worn off cleanly they just look a lot brighter/cleaner than those that still have their gilding.  But yes, definitely up for debate.

I found something else today.  A blue opaline decanter with a tall spire type stopper.  These type of items look quite 'Persian' and are often sold in pairs, some transparent red etc, all enamelled.  I can see that the 'pattern' of decoration is different to those on this thread, but looking close up, the swirls, curls, all over etc, .... not much different in 'style' to these.  And some of the pattern has similarities with the Beykoz vases as well to my eye.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Magnificent-large-Bohemian-Opaline-hand-cut-glass-decanter-/201020189656?hash=item2ecdbcabd8&nma=true&si=l2MBzUYPY0OGjxE48GmpcUBq724%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

I've still not got a clue where these decanters hail from though, although the many I've seen are sold as Bohemian. 

So perhaps it's possible the one that Cathy posted that has the 'feathers' plume mark on it, maybe the  crucial catalyst? 
With regards the ones that just have a letter plus some numbers marked in black on them - I honestly don't know if that is a Harrach 'marker' or not.
 The reason I say that is I've found a Richardson's vase, marked Richardson, but also marked with a P then three digits.  The P is written in the same way as the 'P' found on many Bohemian vases (thinking of the PK ones just as one example), with a little dash on the bottom of the upright stroke and the horizontal strokes of the curve sticking out over the edge of the horizontal.  Obviously I know that with other 'clues' as well as the numbering on the base, items can be properly identified, but I think it just shows that if the Richardson mark had worn off, and the number and letter P just left, it's possible that vase might have been attributed as Bohemian because of the way the mark has been enamelled.

m


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Re: Elaborately Decorated Vase (way over the top)
« Reply #36 on: February 16, 2014, 03:12:20 PM »
This is a Beykoz enamelled base of a water pipe in a museum in Hawaii.
It has the glittery stuff on outlined in gilt and little white flowers.
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Base_of_water_pipe,_Turkey_(Beykoz),_19th_century,_glass,_pigments_and_gilding,_HAA.JPG

m


Offline flying free

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Re: Elaborately Decorated Vase (way over the top)
« Reply #37 on: March 18, 2014, 08:15:33 AM »
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ANTIQUE-STEVENS-AND-WILLIAMS-ENGLISH-GLASS-FOOTED-COMPOTE-VASE-W-ENAMELED-FLOWE-/131143458675?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e88c25f73

I came across this pretty pot today, crimped rim, enamelled in a similar ish way (coloured flowers with use of that odd dark blue and a lighter blue and also the glittery enamel stuff is there).  It is signed in a similar way with letter and numbers on the base. 
This pot is not the same 'base' glass as most of the 'opal base glass with pale enamel  background decoration' items on this thread. It has a 'square or castellated crimped' rim and a bright pink interior cased in white glass with four or five crimped clear glass applied feet.

Something has occurred to me.  The script that is found on the base of these would not fit would it, if these were Turkish from the 19th century as the alphabet they were using at the time was a Turkish form of Arabic script I think?
  Also, I think the way the letters are written would fit a German script maybe? So I'm back to thinking these are Bohemian.  Hopefully this little pot might get us closer to working out who made them.
I still think the darker blue used on these is an  odd colour that I don't see that often on Bohemian enamelled glass, so I wonder where they might have been decorated.  Maybe not the most common sources.  I know some of the Bohemian houses used pale pink and pale blue for overlay glass and that seems to have been quite a feature of their glassworks I think on casual observation (though I'm sure many used all the colours, it just seems these pale colours stand out for certain makers early in the 19th century).  One was Annathal I can't remember the name of the other but will look it up.
m


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Re: Elaborately Decorated Vase (way over the top)
« Reply #38 on: January 22, 2015, 05:26:06 PM »
Hungarian? or Transylvanian? (if such a thing existed as Transylvanian glass)

I've been looking at quite a few pottery pieces listed as Hungarian Fischer Zsolnay (not that I know the faintest thing about Hungarian pottery) but there's something about them, the style of decoration , not identical no, but there's something about them that makes me think these vases might be Hungarian.  The pale and rose pink, the pale blue, that dark blue, all used in their pottery as are some of the repetitive motifs.

A good example of what I mean here  :o  it really has many similarities with these glass pieces I think - have I cracked it?

http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/9774230
And this is a good example of the moorish style outlines and dots
http://www.ebay.com/itm/19TH-CENTURY-FISCHER-J-BUDAPEST-HUNGARIAN-GILT-H-PAINTED-DOUBLE-GOURD-VASE-/171648805247?pt=UK_PotteryPorcelain_Glass_PotteryPorcelain_China_SM&hash=item27f710e97f
and also
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Zsolnay-Flowerpot-Green-White-Gold-1880-Hungary-/141548507623?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20f4f2d1e7

this has the pale yellow in
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BEAUTIFUL-ANTIQUE-19th-CENTURY-ZSOLNAY-PECS-LARGE-BOWL-1873-1882-/271374294086

One with a bulbous/lobed form
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ZSOLNAY-PECS-LARGE-RETICULATED-VASE-BUDAPEST-HUNGARY-C1900-/331451150634
m


Offline flying free

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Re: Elaborately Decorated Vase (way over the top)
« Reply #39 on: January 22, 2015, 06:34:05 PM »
see my long post above
and this one on Mark Hill's site has what would appear to be the 'bubbly glittery' stuff around the central motif - the glittery stuff the glass is trying to copy.  I smell victory  ;D
http://www.markhillpublishing.com/a-hungarian-zsolnay-vase-from-kings-lynn/

m

 

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