Topic: Ysart/Vasart? Pindish

[Nick77]

It seems no matter how many books I have or websites I check I end up with items not quite as pictured.

Just got this Ysart/Vasart pin dish and wonder if it's a particularly early piece?
 According to the references I found these are normally 4inch diameter this is 3 1/4 inches and 1 1/4 inches tall.
 It is not completely round and the surface above the canes is also quite uneven, not a smooth dome.

And again I cannot find a match for the canes to date it's period. The complex canes used in the second ring are quite interesting I think, made up of multiple clear centred frosted outer cog type canes.

The glass has a slight pink/purple tinge and having now got a dual wave band UV light it flouresces green under both long and short wave.

Tahnks
Nick

[Derek]

Hi Nick

Its very difficult to use canes to date these pieces as the canes travelled with the workers as the name changed  - Ysart brothers to Ysart to Strathearn and some have even turned up in Perthshire weights.

Pin dishes rarely if ever started off as pin dishes - they were usually paperweights where the maker spotted a problem whilst making it and rather than scrap it,  turned it into something saleable. They didn't waste any time with them either - at Strathearn each maker was expected to make 100 good weights a shift and I suspect the same was true at Vasart.  So this probably explains the rough finish. The walls look particularly thick on your example which would explain the smaller size. The purplish tinge is usually causes by too much manganese being put in the batch as a decolouriser.

Hope this helps and by the way what dual wavelength UV lamp did you get??

Best regards

Derek
 

[Nick77]

Thanks Derek, lamp is a Spectroline model.

Nick

[Derek]

Hi Nick

Thanks for info on the UV lamp thats the make I am looking at - was it sourced in the UK?

I should have added in the last reply that the rough finish to the pontil is typical of Vasart.

Also the batch mix was changed just after Ysart Brothers became Vasart in 1956 when George Dunlop brought
in a professor Kray who reformulated the batch and included red lead. This resulted in a better working
metal and allowed Vasart to build a larger furnace which was recharged weekly rather than daily.

A uv lamp will show the lead and I am sure KevH will be along before long to clarify which side of the line your pin dish sits.

Best regards

Derek

[Nick77]

Thanks Derek, I bought it through Amazon although the company is actually uvman.co.uk.
 Very helpful as the first to arrive was faulty without waiting for me to return it they sent a replacement by next day delivery.

Kind regards

Nick

[KevinH]

Nick, all of the canes in your dish are early Ysart (Ysart Brothers (Vasart) or maybe even pre-war Ysart). The grinding to the base suggests pre-Vasart Ltd (i.e. Ysart Brothers (Vasart) as most likely) and your uv reaction of Green / Green (or is it Grey? See below.) is consistent with it not being Vasart Ltd or Strathearn.

Is your uv light mains operated or battery? If battery, it may not show the same intensity of reaction as I get with my mains powered unit.

The uv reaction, if it is not Green / Blue (and the blue is quite bright), ought to be Green / Grey, not Green / Green. But the "grey" that I see is "dusty" looking and in some circumstances, such as when viewing the edge of something like a pin or nut dish, it can indeed appear to be more like green than grey.

The pic below is a quick reference shot of the four examples I have. The larger one (bottom right) is an ashtray and is pre-Vasart Ltd (most likely Ysart Bothers (Vasart) period, rather than 1930s). It has a Green / Grey uv reaction. The other three are Green / Blue under the two uv lights showing them to be Vasart Ltd or later, but as each has a grinding as part of the finishing, I reckon they are all Vasart Ltd.

Note that shapes and sizes vary. The ashtray in my pic is a touch over 4 inch diameter, the smallest is just over 3 inch and the two others are just under 3.5 inch.

[Nick77]

Thanks Kevin, UV lamp is both battery and mains although this is via a transformer droping voltage to 6volt and the unit is only 5watts, I was using it connected to the transformer.
I'll try and get photos later of the results.

I do have a large mains UV light with 2 x 12" tubes but I have no idea of the wavelength, it used to be used in my former business for curing a uv set resin.

Is there a definitive guide on uv reactions of different paperweights and their dates?

Regards
Nick

[KevinH]

Is there a definitive guide on uv reactions of different paperweights and their dates?

No.

In fact, in the 1960s, it was stated by Paul Hollister Jr. that uv testing [which I presume at the time was only with longwave uv] that certain thoughts on a specific colour meaning a specific maker [mainly for antique French weights, I believe] were unreliable. He was quite right.

The use of uv as an analysis tool should be used in combination with all other usual means of determining attributions. But in some cases, especially with both longwave and shortwave results, it is possible to make certain separations such as with the three main periods of Paul Ysart's long career.