Author Topic: Paul Ysart with military button?  (Read 701 times)

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Offline Nick77

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Paul Ysart with military button?
« on: January 13, 2013, 11:43:50 AM »
Obviously just a curiosity piece as the crack runs right through the weight, I'm surprised its still in one piece but could this have been made by Paul Ysart. Under long and shortwave UV seems to flouresce  light green. I suspect it cracked during annealing as the pontil mark has been left higher than the base.

Or is it Belgian?

Thanks
Nick


Offline KevinH

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Re: Paul Ysart with military button?
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2013, 11:43:05 PM »
Deciding on these types of badge / button weights is beyond my skills.
KevinH


Offline Frank

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Offline mjr

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Re: Paul Ysart with military button?
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2013, 03:05:46 PM »
Deciding on these types of badge / button weights is beyond my skills.
In which case what hope is there for us mere mortals!!!.
And in answer to Nick - yes it is Paul Ysart - or Belgian!   
Seriously though, this is not an easy one. I have acquired a number of these, and comparing the shape (height, profile, flatness of base etc), the glass colour, the spatter pattern etc, there can be noticable differences where some of them I think are definitely Ysart, some are definitely not, and for some I am not convinced either way.  From the shape of this I would put it at about 8 on the 0 (Belgian) > 10 (Ysart) scale
Martin


Offline Nick77

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Re: Paul Ysart with military button?
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2013, 03:18:58 PM »
Thanks all. pleased to hear it's definately one or the other :)

Out of curiosity are there any known with definate attributions, signature canes/labels etc


Offline Derek

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Re: Paul Ysart with military button?
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2013, 09:14:18 PM »
Hi Nick

Sorry to disappoint you but thats not the whole story.

Dave Moir who worked with the Ysart Brothers from 1954 then for Vasart and finally for Stathearn told me that
ALL of the Ysart family Salvador, Vince etc. used to encase badges and buttons - they regarded it as a nice little
 side line especially with all the troops stationed around Perth.

Best regards

Derek


Offline KevinH

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Re: Paul Ysart with military button?
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2013, 09:23:58 PM »
To the best of my knowledge (which these days may not be as accurate as it used to be), one example of a badge weight I have, which is set on a pedestal stem and foot, came to the market through the former Sweetbriar Gallery with a provenance of "from the Ysart family", but no further details of the provenance were given.

That item, and others that may also have had an "Ysart family" provenance, are useful for comparison, but even then, as Martin has said, it can still be difficult. This is especially true for for examples with an unfinished base. Note that most shown in the Scotland's Glass site have a smooth polished (some concave) base, rather than a remaining pontil mark.

I cannot prove it, but any badge weight which has a large round pontil mark or which is unstable because the "pontil button" causes the weight to wobble would, in my view, fit in Martin's scale at a point below "5".

Note also that in the Scotland's Glass site, Colin Mahoney (author of Masterworks: the paperweights of Paul Ysart) has stated that longwave uv results tie up with what he has recorded as being pre-war Moncrieff. To date, I have been unable to replicate Colin's findings regarding the pre- and post-war split relating to uv reaction. That does not mean I think Colin is wrong, just that my own uv tests on early PY weights have not shown a definitive result.

One other thing ... Salvador Ysart (or someone else at the Ysart Brothers works) [See Derek's post added while I was typing] also made some badge weights. And can we say for certain the Belgium was the only country in mainland Europe where such weights were made? What about the Alsace area of France?

It's almost as tricky as the multitude of "Harlequin" or "Frit and Bubble" weights that are invariably offered as Paul Ysart but which could have been made in various European locations, including Germany.

Hence my current view of "I don't know" for the majority of these weights that crop up so often.
KevinH


Offline tropdevin

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Re: Paul Ysart with military button?
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2013, 09:13:28 PM »
***

Here, here, Kevin! I believe that Salvador Ysart (and subsequently Paul) based their designs on weights that they saw when Salvador was working in France in the1913 - 1914 period, and which had been made in Northern Europe for many years. These would have been from France, Alsace, and Belgium, as well as 'Bohemia', and included harlequins, scrambles, encapsulated sulphides and other objects, weights with frit grounds, pedestal weights....and trying to tie these down to a specific source as much as 100 years later is not easy (probably not even possible in many cases).

Far too many badge weights and untidy harlequins are attributed to Paul Ysart, in my opinion: but he did make a good number of them....

Alan
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Offline daveweight

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Re: Paul Ysart with military button?
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2013, 11:46:42 AM »
A very fair comment by Alan and as he says Paul Ysart did make a large number of badge and button paperweights. I have a letter Colin Terris wrote me and in this he says many batallions of soldiers were posted in and around Perth and they would bring a badge and give it to Paul to encapsulate for a few pennies. Colin confirms Paul sold all his badge wweights out of the back door at Moncrieff
Here is my button weight


Offline Derek

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Re: Paul Ysart with military button?
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2013, 12:33:40 PM »
Hi all

Dave's letter from Colin Terris and the statement made by Dave Moir to me are interesting as it seems
most likely that both Paul and the rest of the Ysart family were ALL making the badge/button weights
while at Moncrieffs and much earlier than previously thought.

This is my reasoning..........We know that the production of Monartware which used soda glass was
started in 1924 but suspended  in 1939 and was not restarted until 1947 by which time only Paul
was left at Moncrieffs as Ysart Brothers was set up in 1946.

Once Monartware production was suspended, all the Ysarts went onto making industrial glassware
using Borosilicate glass. To the best of my knowledge none of the badge/button weights are
Borosilicate glass, so that would imply that the Ysart family started making the badge weights
sometime between 1924 and 1939.

Best regards

Derek

 

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