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Author Topic: Antique Decanter age ??  (Read 413 times)

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Offline petet63

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Antique Decanter age ??
« on: January 16, 2013, 01:34:50 PM »
Hi, this is 23cm high and 28cm with the stopper. The stopper is hollow with 8 star cut to the top. The decanter has oval cuts on the neck. Large 'thumprint' cuts around just below the neck has straight cuts in the form of arrows with oval cuts upper and lower. A fair amount of wear on the 10 star cut foot. two  airbubbles in the neck ring with tiny black and sandy coloured specks. There is a nick near the bottom of the decanter. To me the opening is quite small compared with others I have seen. No idea why I mentioned that  ;D  Any idea on age for this piece ?, a maker would be too much to ask for but with GMB it could happen. I cant find the pattern in my searches.
Pete. :-)


Offline Paul S.

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Re: Antique Decanter age ??
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2013, 06:58:25 PM »
my opinion Pete is that this is in the style of a very common mid-ish C19 decanter generally refered to as a 'bludgeon' shape.       I'm not aware that the 10 point star has any significance, although the circular and oval cut lenses/thumbprints were a common design feature, and are seen frequently on rummers and some drinking glasses from the 1840 - 1870 period.      'Bludgeons' seem to have been a kind of generic mixture of Indian Club, Mallet and Prussian, often with deep gothic cutting that intersected with the star cuts that went right out to the edges of the base.     The hollow mushroom shaped stopper also matches that sort of period.         Can't imagine you'd locate a maker, unfortunately, and can't think offhand why the opening should be more narrow than usual.

To me, this looks remarkably clean for this sort of age - so often they end up cloudy - so possible it's from a later date.
You don't make any mention of 'tie numbers' or 'matching numbers'  -  which are a feature on quality decanters - and although these won't help you with date or maker, might assist with age depending on style of script.       Look on the stub of the stopper, and inside/outside of neck of body (or even on the base). :)


Offline petet63

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Re: Antique Decanter age ??
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2013, 09:14:44 AM »
Strange you should mention a club, bludgeon. Had it in my hand upside downward it had that feel about it ! Best keep it in the cupboard because if I buy another decanter I will be in trouble. I can't resist a decanter, new or old.
      The small opening I mentioned as it made pouring difficult unless you really took your time. The cuts on the base are  all the way to the edge and continue up with the vertical cuts. It does seem to be a little younger than my previous decanter you ID'd for me.  It's not got as many 'bits' and a bit clearer. The stopper has no number. The base of the decanter is too worn for anything useful to be left. Lots of the wear looks like it could be a Sig but that is wishful thinking.  As always Paul, extremely helpful.  Amazing what  4 pound gets you in a charity shop.   Thanks very much. 
                                    Pete
Pete. :-)


Offline Paul S.

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Re: Antique Decanter age ??
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2013, 01:21:21 PM »
when you think of the cost, new, of a cut lead glass decanter - in a high class retail outlet  -  then, yes, I'd a agree very good value at 4, and you do at least know that the money is going to a good cause.
If you collect these things seriously, consider buying Andy McConnell's book on 'The Decanter', a fantastic read, and very useful on so many aspects of ealier glass areas, not just the decanters  -  a very good investment. :)


Offline petet63

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Re: Antique Decanter age ??
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2013, 07:04:43 PM »
I had a quick look for the book and found one for over 500 and another for almost 2000 !!! I reckon white gloves are needed to read that one  ;D I am afraid I will have to buy and sell a fair number of Decanters before that is in my possession. I like decanters for the lessons I get finding out about them. This one has a good look, a lot are very plain. I am slowly building up a small library covering a lot of things but mostly glass. I still get a buzz finding a piece and making a small profit and making the buyer happy, a sort of lost and found  ;D The GMB is a great resource as the members are all of a kind. Thanks for that Paul.   
Pete. :-)


Offline Paul S.

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Re: Antique Decanter age ??
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2013, 07:34:33 PM »
unfortunate that prices for the first edition have climbed so high - I was lucky and found one on Amazon that was certainly much less than the prices you mention although still high compared to most other glass books  -   can think only that the print run was either unusually small, or that they mis-judged the eventual demand.
However, believe we had a brief chat on the board in recent months where Neil53 said there is a second edition coming out - altthough he didn't say how he'd heard this, or when it was expected to appear..........so Neil, is there any  more news?? :)
But remember, if a book is going to last you 20 - 30 years and give information that you can't get elsewhere - and give you the information in the comfort of your own hovel, perhaps it's worth the punt......although not maybe at quite those high levels. ;D


Offline neil53

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Re: Antique Decanter age ??
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2013, 11:43:10 PM »
Hi, I'm sure that I got the information regarding the second version from Andy's web site - http://www.decanterman.com/ - but I can't now find any mention of it  :-[.  I'll have to ask him if I see him at the Cambridge Glass Fair.  He does sell copies of his books from his shop.  I daresay you'll find a copy cheaper there than on ebay.


Offline Paul S.

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Re: Antique Decanter age ??
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2013, 09:09:33 AM »
thanks Neil.
silly thing is that I remember going to see him in Rye some few years back and noticed that he'd got a pile of these things in the shop, but since I didn't have the interest at that time ignored the book, and bought Leslie Jackson's W/Fs thing only. :'(       

I've just spoken to Andy and he tells me that there is a new edition coming out (not sure exactly when), which will include more information on C20 material - so if anyone is thinking of getting the book I might suggest keeping in touch with his shop to avoid missing out at the time of publication.


Offline neil53

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Re: Antique Decanter age ??
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2013, 10:29:34 AM »
Hi, I emailed Andy and here is his reply in full (with permission from him to publish it):

"Hi Neil

It's true that I have discussed republishing The Decanter, An Illustrated History of Glass from 1650 with its original publisher, the Antique Collectors' Club. It was originally published in 2004, 2,000 copies that sold out in about 18 months.

The idea is to republish the text as it stands as it has withstood the test of time. I got one date wrong, in the index, which will be corrected. However, the 20th century will be recreated from scratch. Frankly, I wasn't so into 'recent' glass at the time, but really got into it researching and composing the follow-up, 20th Century Glass. So that chapter will be entirely new and expanded: at least doubled, if not more.

So far so good. However, the problem is one of time. Or rather, a shortage of it.

I'm currently totally stuck into writing and composing my new book, Swedish Glass Six of the Best. This will focus on six of that country's leading designers: Vicke Lindstrand, Erik Hoglund, Goran Warff, Bertil Vallien, Signe Persson Melin and Lars Hellsten. I've been researching it for five years, slowly building up the image banks.

Over the past couple of weeks, I've really got stuck into it and I'll do nothing else, as it were, until its finished. Only then can I allow myself to think about other matters.

I do hope that this answers your question.


All the best

A

PS: Please feel free to post this info on your board."

If his book on Swedish glass is as good as his book on decanters and on 20th century glass then it will be well worth buying.  I've already asked him to put me down for a copy when it is ready.


Offline neil53

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Re: Antique Decanter age ??
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2013, 11:28:54 AM »
Whoops, I had a case of premature publication.  Andy was kind enough to update his email with more details of his new book:

"    It's true that I have discussed republishing The Decanter, An Illustrated History of Glass from 1650 with its original publisher, the Antique Collectors' Club. It came out in 2004, 2,000 copies that sold out in about 18 months.

    The idea is to republish the text as it stands as it has withstood the test of time. I got one date wrong, in the index, which will be corrected. However, the 20th century chapter will be recreated from scratch. Frankly, I wasn't so into 'recent' glass at the time, but really got into it researching and composing the follow-up, 20th Century Glass. So that chapter will be entirely new and expanded: at least doubled, if not more.

    So far so good. However, the problem is one of time. Or rather, a shortage of it.

    I'm currently totally stuck into writing and composing my new book, Swedish Glass: Six of the Best. This will focus on six of that country's leading designers: Vicke Lindstrand, Erik Hoglund, Goran Warff, Bertil Vallien, Signe Persson Melin and Lars Hellsten. I've been researching it for five years, slowly building up the image banks, now totalling around 10,000+. The format will be similar to 20th Century Glass, in that it based loads of images laid out on evolving timelines.

    Again like its predecessor, it will feature museum-quality Unikas, common to all previous studies of the subject, but will also include thousands of lesser, more common pieces. Like The Decanter, it will be subjected to wide-ranging and hopefully rigorous peer-proofing in an attempt to keep mistakes to a minimum.

    Over the past couple of weeks, I've really got stuck into it and I'll do nothing else, as it were, until its finished. Only then can I allow myself to think of other matters."

Neil

 

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