ok, thanks I'll keep looking for a match to the shape.
But I have a query over it as I've not found another in that shape so far. And now I am wondering if the epergne holder is a marriage or not.
The marks are very worn on it. However the lion outline shape of the cartouche matches marks for 1916-1933.
The mark next to it is completely worn off but the cartouche outline shape is there and that may have been for the date letter which matches the shapes used for 1896-1933 London it seems. Need to check other cities.
So it is possible the 'pat applied for' no was first registered in 1885, however this actual piece may date to a period from 1916-1933 i.e. possibly during the time the bowl was made but they still put on the patent no app for mark.
Rather unfortunately the makers mark has the first letter worn almost completely away although the second letter E and the Ltd mark are still there very clearly. I'll do some digging and come back if I find a maker
Edited to add later: The second cartouche shape could be either the date letter for London 1916-1933 or the cartouche for the leopard mark for London which was for the same period.
The shape of it does not match date marks for any other city dates for 1885 or for any other period that would match post 1885 as far as I can see.
Presumably one or other of the marks has worn away as there should be a lion mark, a city mark and a date mark as well as the makers mark. Or it's an import made to look like a silver mark. I can't find the makers mark at the moment.
Thanks for all your help both