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Author Topic: Could this be Webb bronze?  (Read 830 times)

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Offline albglass

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Could this be Webb bronze?
« on: January 24, 2013, 12:10:20 AM »
Hi, I was suspicious that this vase could be a Webb bronze piece, since it has several characteristics known for Webb bronze:
1. It has bronze iridescence
2. It is on a green ground, and Webb bronze is called green bronze because of the green ground
3. It has a perfect round, centered, highly-polished pontil
4. It has a rounded rim
5. The decoration is etched (or engraved), and then infilled with gilding, which is one of the decors listed by Hajdamach
6. Some Webb bronze pieces have an Egyptian theme, like the one shown in British Glass 1800-1914 that has engraved and infilled hieroglyphics
Nevertheless, I am puzzled by the gilded number 1 in the center of the pontil.  I tend to think gilded numbers are more prevalent on Continental pieces.  If it were Bohemian, though, I don't know which glassmaker could have made it, since Loetz bronze glatt is on an olive colored ground, and Josephinenhutte used a cobalt ground for their bronze zypern. 
Is the gilded number 1 a deal breaker for a Webb bronze attribution?
Thanks for your insights!

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Offline Lustrousstone

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Re: Could this be Webb bronze?
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2013, 07:24:24 AM »
I don't know whether it helps but I think the theme is religious and is the flight of Mary, Joseph and Jesus into Egypt (the poking up thing being a baby carrier). My instincts say Bohemian. There is plenty of "unknown" irridised green glass about.  Kralik also produced irridised green.

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Offline chopin-liszt

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Re: Could this be Webb bronze?
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2013, 12:18:00 PM »
I thought Webb bronze had a wrinkly textured surface...

A gilded number on the pontil mark might well be considered to be the number of the person who did the gliding.

I think you're right about J&M, Christine - they're on a donkey, not a camel.
Cheers, Sue (M)

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Offline Lustrousstone

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Re: Could this be Webb bronze?
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2013, 12:21:12 PM »
Quote
I thought Webb bronze had a wrinkly textured surface...

Not all of it

Quote
A gilded number on the pontil mark might well be considered to be the number of the person who did the gliding.

Almost certainly, it was a piece work thing, but it doesn't seem prevalent on English stuff

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Offline John Smith

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Re: Could this be Webb bronze?
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2013, 12:56:21 PM »
... Just an observation. The glass itself "could be" Webb bronze, and Lustrousstone is right, not all Webb bronze has a crinkled/orange peel-like surface, however in my opinion (and I am not being rude here) the gilding does seem very crude and pooly applied to be a Webb piece. Of course this work could have been done out of house and at anytime by anybody after the vase was produced. To me, the vase has the correct quality, but the decoration does not. Surely Webb would have used more highly skilled decorators, many of which were also pottery painters etc. from some of the finest factories of the era. The decoration upon the vase, does not seem to be have done by a professional hand! 

A further observation perhaps, is that the piece shows signs of obvious age related wear to its base, however the number "1" is pristine! This "could" account perhaps for the decoration to be of a later date than the vase... Just a thought. 

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Offline chopin-liszt

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Re: Could this be Webb bronze?
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2013, 01:02:35 PM »
If the gilded 1 is in the indented polished pontil mark it would not get worn.
Cheers, Sue (M)

“Empirical evidence on expert opinion shows that it is extremely unreliable”
Ioannidis, (2005), Plos Medicine.

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Offline johnphilip

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Re: Could this be Webb bronze?
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2013, 01:36:39 PM »
It looks like Webb bronze to me  i have had quite a lot of it , the handles look like Elephant trunk handles i have seen these on Webb glass , i will try to dig out Chris Morleys book later... at the moment i am trying to get the central heating going and am up to my eyes in sh muck . :o
 ps my B plumber is in Canada in his B canooooooe!!!! Action man wish i had his money . I think he is looking for rubbish falls he is a bit deaf .

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Offline Lustrousstone

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Re: Could this be Webb bronze?
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2013, 01:55:08 PM »
I too thought the decor a little crude, which is one reason my gut says Bohemia. Decorating was often a cottage industry involving whole families. Can you work out how the engraving was done? With a wheel or manually with a diamond tip? My guess would be a diamond tip

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Offline johnphilip

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Re: Could this be Webb bronze?
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2013, 02:43:31 PM »
just to explain in my thread the word rubbish has replaced the word that rhymes with Niagra you know that big wet thing in Canada !!! no not a mod do we have any in Canada ?  i think i will go and kick a ball boy tonight . :'(
PS i didnt know that was a naughty word . tsk tsk . :o

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Offline albglass

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Re: Could this be Webb bronze?
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2013, 04:26:14 PM »
The handles are definitely elephant trunk handles, should that be important.

I'm thinking it was engraved--the lines are very deep.  On older diamond point decorations (before the use of electric drills and dremel tools), I haven't seen that depth of engraving.

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