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Author Topic: Blue and white overlay vase - vine and grapes decoration - enamel?  (Read 3187 times)

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Offline Baked_Beans

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Re: Blue and white overlay vase - vine and grapes decoration - enamel?
« Reply #50 on: March 23, 2013, 04:38:12 PM »
If this technique was used again in the 1900's, how do you distinguish between the two dates ? The pink compote (to my entirely untrained eye) looks late Victorian in style to me ...I've checked the general design of pressed glass , late Victorian compote's (or compotiers/comports) and toothed rims were definitely in vogue at that time.
Mike


Offline flying free

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Re: Blue and white overlay vase - vine and grapes decoration - enamel?
« Reply #51 on: March 23, 2013, 04:45:19 PM »
yes I know - I have thought the same, but not been able to find a link to a later date so far for the double overlay/shapes/techniques apart from the tooth rim.
I've also not been able to find a link to the tooth cut rim for mid 19th either though - or for Harrach.
btw, just for accuracy, I'm not sure it's a tooth cut rim really.
Also I did have a cut glass Victorian lustre with a similar cut zig zag type of rim and I thought that dated to around 1870 ish, so perhaps not totally v.late Victorian if you see what I mean.

an example is this footed bowl dating to c.1840 from what it says
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/4268309
or this dating to mid 19th
http://www.glaswolf.de/Schale-mit-Ansichten.253+B6YmFja1BJRD0yNTMmcHJvZHVjdElEPTE5MDA5JnBpZF9wcm9kdWN0PTI1MyZkZXRhaWw9.0.html
http://www.glaswolf.de/Biedermeier-Tazza.287+B6YmFja1BJRD0yODcmcHJvZHVjdElEPTI0MjMmcGlkX3Byb2R1Y3Q9Mjg3JmRldGFpbD0_.0.html

m


Offline Baked_Beans

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Re: Blue and white overlay vase - vine and grapes decoration - enamel?
« Reply #52 on: March 23, 2013, 06:59:14 PM »
It really does seem that this style & design of compote (comport)  spanned more than half a century  :o  so to try and date the pink one is very difficult indeed   ??? I thought it would be a doddle  :-[

Mike


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Re: Blue and white overlay vase - vine and grapes decoration - enamel?
« Reply #53 on: March 23, 2013, 07:07:57 PM »
 ;D
that's the fun of it
m


Offline Baked_Beans

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Re: Blue and white overlay vase - vine and grapes decoration - enamel?
« Reply #54 on: March 29, 2013, 06:52:31 AM »
I just thought I would throw this one in the mix as a name of an engraver of the period who is very good at depicting tree bark and leaves ...it's a slightly different style but as it's signed at least it gives another lead which might be of help ( or  not  ::) )......

http://katalog.auktionshaus-wendl.com/de/cmd/d/o/119.68-2923/auk/68/p/1/
Mike


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Re: Blue and white overlay vase - vine and grapes decoration - enamel?
« Reply #55 on: August 08, 2013, 02:06:11 PM »
Hi Mike
I'm sorry I missed your post - that one is by Carl Gunther (I linked a couple of other pieces by him earlier).  That's a beautiful example, thank you for continuing to look for me :)

I have some more possible names - or at least a small headway

Having received the Harrach book, there are only three examples of a similar cameo technique in there that I could find.
 

None of them are three layer glass i.e. blue/pink/red over white over clear.  They are all two layer. 

Of the three that have the top layer also engraved -

One of them (page 140) is a blue over clear cameo glass portrait becher.
It's dated c,1850 caption says  'engraved at Harrachov, Johann Veith (decorative part), portrait the work on an unknown engraver'.  i.e I think, the cutting of the outline round the medallion and the plain blue line of decorative trim at the rim and foot was by Veitch.
The other two are on page 177.  They are floral . 

One is blue on clear water tumbler with bullrushes on in the blue, dated 1854-1855 - the caption refers to a wine jug and and tumbler  documented in 1854 with Alois Pohl noted as the engraver.
Further on in the caption it mentions there were colours of ruby red, pink and green variants.  And says refer to delivery lists for Lobmeyr from 1854-1855 with Anton Sacher noted as the engraver.

The other is a very tall vase  blue on clear with the acanthus scrolls and a figure of a hunter, hound and deer  (the lenses around the bottom of this one are a similar shape to those on mine).  Dated c. 1860.
Most interestingly  it refers to the book AH9 (I presume this is a Harrach pattern book), where it say that in that book the vase is sketched with engraved decoration of entwining vine tendrils with leaves.  Further reference say 'the form was also recorded in the delivery for .... from 21 June 1855 .....caption Rosa hohe Champagnervase 21".... engraved by Franz Mohr and Alois Pohl ... ' . 

Very unfortunately none of these pieces are three layer glass.  It's a big book, 430 pages, so are the other two books I've been through ...  and still no definite link to Harrach.
And interestingly, no Karl Pfohl identified pieces in there in the same technique ( I've not looked at clear engraved glass examples).
I'm beginning to wonder about Harrach not being the source for the three layer pieces.

m


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Re: Blue and white overlay vase - vine and grapes decoration - enamel?
« Reply #56 on: August 08, 2013, 03:19:00 PM »
I forgot to add to the above post
I found one in green - it's single layer, a portrait becher, horrid transparent green (imho :) ) but interesting to see the colour variation.
http://www.artfact.com/auction-lot/glass-beaker-harrach-19th-ct.-167-c-d105e95d7a
listed as 'probably Harrach'.
m


Offline Baked_Beans

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Re: Blue and white overlay vase - vine and grapes decoration - enamel?
« Reply #57 on: August 11, 2013, 12:31:29 PM »
Thanks for the update m , I was wondering how you were getting on with your research . It's frustrating not being able to nail it on the head , you seem to be so near to getting there !

Mike


Offline Baked_Beans

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Re: Blue and white overlay vase - vine and grapes decoration - enamel?
« Reply #58 on: August 19, 2013, 04:40:51 PM »
Mike


Offline Baked_Beans

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Re: Blue and white overlay vase - vine and grapes decoration - enamel?
« Reply #59 on: August 19, 2013, 07:21:43 PM »
P.s. I've also found this ....the general shape to the bottom half looks similar c1900.


http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/LargeImage.aspx?image=http://www.christies.com/lotfinderimages/d40075/d4007574x.jpg
Mike

 

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