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Author Topic: Blue and white overlay vase - vine and grapes decoration - enamel?  (Read 5327 times)

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Offline flying free

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Re: Blue and white overlay vase - vine and grapes decoration - enamel?
« Reply #70 on: October 21, 2013, 06:37:01 PM »
Further to my comments here in this thread (see link)

http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,51272.msg292956.html#msg292956

I went up to the V&A last week to look at the Franz Zach bowl - ooh it's really gorgeous.
I also took some pictures.  It's the same technique as my vase, i.e. cameo, however it's  only one blue layer over clear glass and the blue has been etched/carved away thinner in some areas thicker in others, as I said before, and that way it shows more or less light through giving the design on the bowl a very three dimensional feel - it's beautiful.  Mine uses the white overlay behind the blue to give the paler and darker effect rather than light shining through ... if you see what I mean?
But what I could not see in the link pics was that looking at the bowl side on, the background clear just looks acid etched plain glass.  However when you get the light behind it you can see vermicular engraving all over the background clear glass - it's stunning.
It's not quite as big as I imagined, so by comparison my vase/decanter feels like a fairly ok sized piece of work, especially considering how tiny (cabinet sized) many hand carved pieces of cameo glass are  :)

I hope I'm ok to post these pics - they are mine and I was allowed to take pictures in there. 
m


Offline flying free

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Re: Blue and white overlay vase - vine and grapes decoration - enamel?
« Reply #71 on: October 30, 2013, 01:45:36 AM »
Just adding for reference
I've been through the Fischer's archives and searched 960 bechers  :o
Found two
this one (scroll down to second one down)
http://www.auctions-fischer.de/search.html?L=1&suche=becher&archiv=1&cHash=807ee99108&gwoffset=87
'Nordböhmen, um 1860'

and this one
http://www.auctions-fischer.de/catalogues/online-catalogues/210-european-glass-studio-glass.html?L=1&kategorie=102&artikel=26481&L=1&cHash=0e79a907d3
date c.1860
m


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Re: Blue and white overlay vase - vine and grapes decoration - enamel?
« Reply #72 on: November 02, 2013, 03:10:43 PM »
Actually have looked carefully at image link number one and it's not a double overlay.  Only blue I believe.
So 960 bechers in the Fischer's archives I've searched and only 1 in the same design in double overlay.
m


Offline flying free

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Re: Blue and white overlay vase - vine and grapes decoration - enamel?
« Reply #73 on: October 20, 2014, 07:11:04 AM »
A recent Bonhams Auction 13 December 2013
Lot 10 shows this becher with dog and vines.  It is dated 1866.
http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/21673/lot/10/
It is blue over clear only, not three layer, and attributed to Karl Pfohl.
In the description there is reference to the 'scroll work' and that one with 'closely related scrollwork' is in the Passauer attributed to Karl Pfohl.  The scrollwork looks like the work on my vase.
No three layer cameo pieces in the sale though despite 10 of these two layer pieces.

The description reads:
'A Bohemian cameo beaker attributed to Karl Pfohl, Steinschönau, dated 1866
Overlaid in cobalt blue, of campana shape on a spreading foot cut with ovals and trefoils, cut and engraved in shallow cameo with a dog standing on the forked branches of foliate scrollwork, a lens on the reverse engraved with the date 6/2/1866, 16.8cm high
FOOTNOTES
A tall goblet with cameo work including closely related scrollwork attributed to Karl Pfohl, is in the Passauer Glasmuseum, illustrated by Georg Höltl, Das Böhmische Glas 1700-1950, vol.3 Historismus, p.68, fig.76. Other similar pieces have been attributed to Franz Zach, including a goblet in the Rinceaux Collection, Sotheby's 18 December 2001, lot 160
'

Another that is just interesting to look at - dated 1850-1860 and detailed cameo work
Intricate Stangenglas  Lot 11  11th Dec 2013, dated 1850-1860 and described as
'A Bohemian cameo glass stangenglas'
http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/21673/lot/11/
Red over clear matted background, quite an intricate design
Description of piece is as follows
'A Bohemian cameo glass stangenglas, circa 1850-60
The tall cylinder tapering slightly and raised on a panelled spreading foot, overlaid in deep ruby and cut, etched and engraved back to the clear frosted ground beneath, a group of carousing revellers seated among casks, vines and fruit festoons, surmounted by a further figure astride a barrel, a banner inscribed Gott erhalte uns junges Blut und alten Wein, the reverse with a viewing lens between tall vines, 33.5cm high
'

All 10 pieces are  Bohemian cameo glass and dated variously between 1850 and 1870.



m


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Re: Blue and white overlay vase - vine and grapes decoration - enamel?
« Reply #74 on: October 20, 2014, 08:20:12 AM »
see my latest post above
and I ran out of time to add this -

Note:
Going back through the posts on this thread - this bowl (see link below) I believe was made by the same person as made my decanter.
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/2089227
In the Harrach book (From Neuwelt to the Whole World) on page 83, there appears to be a becher that matches the pink colour.  It is pink overlay on white overlay on clear (although in their description they did not mention that it was pink overlay on white over clear, they just said pink on clear which it is not).  It has various designs cut through to show the layers and also has a portrait medallion on it. Although it is not a cameo piece the colour I think, matches the pink bowl linked above, of which the design matches my decanter.

In the description of the becher it says:
'Beaker with embedded paste - portrait of W. Batka'
execution: c.1850
h. 13.6cm
West Bohemian Museum, Pizen, inv.no 11187
Colourless glass with opaque pink overlay glass, cut, with embedded porcelain paste.  Engraved on the bottom "Batka dedicav".

In the 1840s Wenzel Batka was one of the main suppliers of raw materials (chemicals) to the Neuwelt glassworks. '


I'm pretty sure that is a good match for the pink over white over clear bowl.
m


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Re: Blue and white overlay vase - vine and grapes decoration - enamel?
« Reply #75 on: October 20, 2014, 05:15:59 PM »
Only one of my links that I put in the earlier post on this thread remains
so I'm adding it and an image url again just in case.  It's the becher from the Ludwig collection.
http://www.auctions-fischer.de/typo3temp/pics/7428-19_14913d8b1d.jpg
http://www.auctions-fischer.de/catalogues/online-catalogues/210-european-glass-studio-glass.html?L=1&kategorie=102&artikel=26481&L=1&cHash=0e79a907d3

Auction 210 Dr Fischers - lot number 257
'257 - BECHER MIT DOPPELÜBERFANG NORDBÖHMEN, UM 1860 FARBLOSES, ERST WEISS, DANN BLAU...
Farbloses, erst weiß, dann blau überfangenes Glas, in Schichtgravur dekoriert mit Weinranken und Trauben. Oberhalb des Standes Kugelschliff-Bordüre. H. 14 cm Ehemals Sammlung Ludwig, Regensburg.
Nordböhmen, um 1860'


I also found this interesting tumble up night flask.  CAtalogue 219, lot 208
It's three layer blue over white over clear and is the opposite to cameo in that the design has been cut through the layers to show the white and clear and no cameo work on the blue.  But the interesting part is that it is a sort of 'pre-cursor' to my flask - the design is vines and grapes.  The leaves have been created by cutting away the blue layer and leaving the leaves in white (gilded and silvered enamel) and then the grapes created by cutting 'bunches' of lenses through the blue, leaving a white surround and leaving clear glass in the middle.  It is actually dated on the piece "Palmsonntag 1849"
http://www.auctions-fischer.de/typo3temp/pics/8059-5_8e982cd6b3.jpg
http://www.auctions-fischer.de/catalogues/online-catalogues/219-european-glass-and-studio-glass.html?L=1&kategorie=102&artikel=36564&L=1&cHash=413081b5b6
m


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Re: Blue and white overlay vase - vine and grapes decoration - enamel?
« Reply #76 on: October 21, 2014, 06:32:50 PM »
I'm up to 2000 bechers searched (and the rest  ::)  but I'm only counting Dr Fischer archives  which I'm now up to date on) and 220 flakons and flasches etc and nothing, except that one becher.
m



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Re: Blue and white overlay vase - vine and grapes decoration - enamel?
« Reply #77 on: October 05, 2015, 11:08:12 PM »
The picture has a James D Julia watermark -it's of a white over pink version of the grapes and vines in vase form.
On the Prices4antiques site the listing apparently said
'Webb Glass; Cameo, Vase, Branches with Leaves & Grapes, Pink & White, 18 inch.'

The description of the vase is that it is 'monumental'

'Webb Glass; Cameo, Vase, Branches with Leaves & Grapes, Pink & White, 18 inch.

A Webb Cameo [glass] vase, carved pink and white over clear cameo pattern of grapes, leaves and branches decorate this monumental size vase. Signed on... [more detail available via subscription]

p4A Item E8959152
Category:    glass        Origin:    England
Type:    webb        Year:    1875 - 1910'

The cameo decoration has a very close similarity to that on my vase.

I don't think I agree with the description identification.  And it may have been sold with that identification because of the bowl discussed at this point on the thread which appears to have a spurious Webb mark:
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,51272.msg307118.html#msg307118

Sorry about the source references but I haven't been able to get the original James D. Julia listing up so unfortunately have no idea how long ago it was sold.
m

http://www.prices4antiques.com/Webb-Glass-Cameo-Vase-Branches-with-Leaves-Grapes-Pink-White-18-inch-E8959152.html

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/e6/f2/ef/e6f2efbe5c0cd8916b4da9d1ff54b187.jpg


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Re: Blue and white overlay vase - vine and grapes decoration - enamel?
« Reply #78 on: April 05, 2016, 10:56:35 PM »
In my reply #11 on this thread I talked about the paucity of information about Bohemian cameo glass produced in the mid 19th century-
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,51272.msg292956.html#msg292956

I have just come across a book called 'Colonial homes and their furnishings' by Mary Northend.  It was written in 1917.
 In that book the following:

'At the commencement of the seventeenth century, some of the Bohemian manufacturers were producing vases of various shapes enriched with engraved ornaments, representing scenes, and frequently portraits. Some of the former type are shown in the wonderful collection owned by Mr. W. J. Mitchell at Manchester, Massachusetts. With the pronounced popularity of the Bohemian engraved vases, artists in other countries began decorating their ware in like fashion, those of France employing interlaced flowers. These were etched on, rather than engraved, however, and cheapened the ware; in other countries the results obtained were no better, all failing to compare with the Bohemian specimens, for the art of engraving here had been learned from long experience by workmen who were experts in their line.

Many Bohemian pieces showed an original decoration in the way of ornamentations in relief on the outside, while the art of cameo incrustation was also first used by Bohemian workers, who sometimes varied it to obtain odd and pleasing effects by engraving through an outer casing of colored glass into an interior of white, transparent, or enameled glass.  One such specimen, a salt cellar, is shown in the Mitchell collection.'

So Bohemian cameo glass was acknowledged clearly in this book, and is clearly denoted as cameo glass, and the description of the process is clearly that of the cameo process.

m


Offline KevinH

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Re: Blue and white overlay vase - vine and grapes decoration - enamel?
« Reply #79 on: April 05, 2016, 11:55:11 PM »
m,

Are the two quoted paragraphs consecutive entries in the book? It just seems misleading that it starts with "... commencement of the seventeenth century ..." and then flows into the second paragraph talking about cameo work [which I thought was first revived in the 19th C.]

And another possible confusion is the use of the term "cameo incrustation" ... which was a British term for "Sulphide" [Apsley Pellatt, etc.].
KevinH

 

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