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Author Topic: ID on a plate with a turned under AND turned up edge?  (Read 2868 times)

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Offline Glen

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Re: ID on a plate with a turned under AND turned up edge?
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2006, 10:26:37 AM »
The recent thread on another block design ("Is it Crown Crystal?" http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,8513.0.html ) set me wondering again about this piece of Simone's.

Does anyone have any further thoughts or suggestions about it?

Glen
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Offline Cathy B

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Re: ID on a plate with a turned under AND turned up edge?
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2006, 10:53:08 AM »
It's quite an attractive piece, isn't it.

Glen, what distinguishes this from the Inwald Jacobean?


Offline Jay

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Re: ID on a plate with a turned under AND turned up edge?
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2006, 10:44:33 PM »
Well, nobody mentioned Belgium (VSL) yet. There are very few pattern books for the factory, but having just bought a large box of stuff which is definitely VSL, this piece would not be very out of place in it.
Very typical the deep and polished star-cut base which extends so near to the edge of the foot that it creates a reasonable rim (and reduces scratching on fine wood surfaces). Somewhat 'rounded' or 'soft' ribs are also a typical VSL feature

Although it's hard to tell from the pictures, the outside 'lip' looks rather over thick! I have quite a lot of Imwald and this is pretty near to the right 'scallop' shape, but most of MY Imwald is quite exactly proportioned (and therefore a somewhat slimmer edge), this looks to be quite chunky?!
(Pamela, I'm sure you have even more of it, so I bow to your greater knowledge)

One of the most noticeable things about VSL designs is that the glass is rather unnecessarily thick. (Perhaps they were selling stuff by the kilo!) ;-) (Though actually it's a better guess that they were shipping on the waterways and cared more about resilience than about weight!)

German factories generally(!) preferred a somewhat slimmer press-moulds (and Holland generally the 'thinnest' of all!)

PS. I fully agree with Glen that without the thing in my hands this is just a very obtuse guessing game!
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Offline Glen

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Re: ID on a plate with a turned under AND turned up edge?
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2006, 10:46:25 AM »
Jay - many thanks for your post. I had not considered Belgium, you are right. The main reason is that I know very little about VSL - but I agree with you that it is certainly an area worth pursuing. On the subject of Belgium, have you (or anyone else) heard of Emile Haebler? I believe they may have been linked with Hortensja (Poland).

Cathy - good question! How is this pattern different from Inwald's Jacobean? The edges (to the squares) are "flush" with each square on Inwald's Jacobean. There is no stepping or change of surface level, as there is on this pattern. Also, on Inwald's Jacobean, there are no V shapes between the squares, as there are on some of these square block patterns.

A characteristic of Inwald is (usually) a highly mirror polished base. Not just a smooth grind....it's more than that!

Glen
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Offline Mosquito

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Re: ID on a plate with a turned under AND turned up edge?
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2006, 04:41:22 PM »
Looking at the photos again, I feel that the appearance of any steps between the squares may simply be a refractive effect. The two photos which show a clear close up of the pattern from the underside, (http://www.graphix4you.com/paperweights/plate6.jpg http://www.graphix4you.com/paperweights/plate8.jpg) both show flush squares with no steps or v's. Therefore I feel it is Inwald's Lord pattern.

Steven


Offline Glen

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Re: ID on a plate with a turned under AND turned up edge?
« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2006, 04:55:43 PM »
Steven, you could well be right, it may well be "Lord" / Jacobean. However, I think the perception problem is a stickler here, as I still see "steps" when I look at it (perhaps I need new specs  ::)). Also, the central star (on the base) doesn't look the same as the Jacobean stars I have seen (the points are longer and thinner on Jacobean, whereas these appear to be stubbier).

I am sure that if we were to handle the item in question we would know right away what it is (or isn't).

Glen
Just released—Carnival from Finland & Norway e-book!
Also, Riihimäki e-book and Carnival from Sweden e-book.
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Offline pamela

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Re: ID on a plate with a turned under AND turned up edge?
« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2006, 10:06:45 PM »

I'll qote for Bernsdorf 'Lady' again and again and beg to apologize for that at the same time ;o)
laying my'Lady's items upright down- there is no doubt  >:D :-X
Pamela
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Experience teaches that anyone who begins to collect in any field can feel a change in his soul. He becomes a joyful man filled with a deeper empathy, and a more open understanding of worldly things moves his soul.    (Alfred Lichtwark 1852 – 1914)


Offline Glen

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Re: ID on a plate with a turned under AND turned up edge?
« Reply #17 on: December 20, 2006, 08:40:14 AM »
If we were all together, sipping coffee (better still, mulled wine) and passing the plate around between us, I am sure we would have no problem identifying and agreeing upon what it is. But I'm foxed by the (optical) problems of my perception on this.

To move onto Cathy's fresh block pattern with the ballerina (gorgeous piece, by the way) - another tricky one. I think you're absolutely right that it is linked with Hortensja, Cathy. I will attempt to scan and post all the relevant patterns as soon as I can.
Glen

Just released—Carnival from Finland & Norway e-book!
Also, Riihimäki e-book and Carnival from Sweden e-book.
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Copyright G&S Thistlewood


Offline Jay

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Re: ID on a plate with a turned under AND turned up edge?
« Reply #18 on: December 20, 2006, 09:00:59 AM »
I hope that I could get a good picture of the scallop profile of Lady, so did a few photo experiments...
I hope they help.

http://www.hogelandshoeve.nl/pix/ladypattern.jpg

Would anyone like a Christmas cookie?
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Offline pamela

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Re: ID on a plate with a turned under AND turned up edge?
« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2006, 07:16:35 PM »
Jay, I jump into it and would say: yours is not LADY of Bernsdorf  >:D
objections welcomed of course  ;)
Pamela
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Experience teaches that anyone who begins to collect in any field can feel a change in his soul. He becomes a joyful man filled with a deeper empathy, and a more open understanding of worldly things moves his soul.    (Alfred Lichtwark 1852 – 1914)

 

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