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Author Topic: Need Help Identifying  (Read 589 times)

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Offline Barmy

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Need Help Identifying
« on: March 24, 2013, 03:00:50 PM »
Pick these two pieces up at a local auction yesterday.  Any help would be appreciated.

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u242/barmy1/0Q5A2893_zpsdf771b85.jpg

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u242/barmy1/0Q5A2894_zpsfdb39bbd.jpg

Both pontils are very rough

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u242/barmy1/0Q5A2898_zpsce9366a5.jpg

Thanks in advance for you help.

Barry
Barry

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Offline Paul S.

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Re: Need Help Identifying
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2013, 04:08:24 PM »
hello Barry  -  regret I can't seem to open your second link, but can give you a little information on the first glass.

a not uncommon form of funnel-shaped short ale, with wrythen decoration to the lower half of the bowl, and the knop.     You don't give dimensions, but I'm assuming the foot will have a slightly larger diameter than the rim which is usual for these things, and I'd guess height will be something from just under 5" to possibly a little over 6".                  Should have a good lead composition ring when flicked.
Date wise these things occur throughout most of the C18 - the earlier examples having folded feet, although this one appears to be without that feature, so I'm guessing yours will possibly date more to the second half of that period.             Your glass should sit on the very outside edge of the foot.

It's a good glass to have, and these short ales are popular pieces.      In some examples, the wrythen decoration often extends the whole height of the bowl - others have flammiform fringes to the top part of the twist - some have two knops, and then the really rare pieces have the winged knops.


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Offline Paul S.

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Re: Need Help Identifying
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2013, 04:38:28 PM »
ah, the gremlins seem to have gone........ :)

Your second piece would again appear to be another short ale glass, with wrythen-funnel bowl, only this time the stem appears to have an annular knop, which I'd suggest is less common so a more desirable glass.
The wrythen decoration appears to cover the entire height of the bowl, and this style of twist is not uncommon  -  I'm not sure if this piece has a folded foot or not, but I'd suggest a date of c.1750 and suspect the height of the glass to be about 5.5" to 6" and again the foot should be of a larger diameter than the rim.
Some of these pieces have a truly wonderful ring.

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Offline Barmy

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Re: Need Help Identifying
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2013, 06:49:53 PM »
Thanks Paul.  They both have a beautiful sound.  I think I made a good deal.   ;D
Barry

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Offline neil53

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Re: Need Help Identifying
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2013, 10:46:26 PM »
Hi, just to add to Paul's comments.  These wrythen glasses were copied in the early 20th century and although I have no reason to suspect that the glasses you have are anything other than late 18th century, only an inspection of the wear and the metal will allow you to differentiate the older and the newer versions.  Charles Hajdamach's book "20th Century British Glass" shows examples of the copies towards the end of the book.  I've bought a few on ebay that I've had to return because the metal was too clear for 18th century glass.  If Peter (oldglassman) is around then he may be able to tell just from your pictures, as may Paul, but for we mere mortals a closer inspection would be required.

Good luck with the glasses, I really like these old ales.

Neil

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Offline Paul S.

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Re: Need Help Identifying
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2013, 10:21:28 AM »
thanks Neil  -  but regret to say that I too am only mortal, and interpreting clear glass on the pc screen is - as you rightly say - potentially a problem  -  unfortunately, it's all too easy to look at the screen and assume that what you're seeing is an original  -  it certainly doesn't occur to me, usually, to suspect a copy, and then you go off firing on all cylinders assuming it's bona fide.
The more obvious features we've been discussing are easy enough to assign - when original - to more or less particular periods/styles, but you're right to point out that copies have been made during the C20, and doubly right to comment that less obvioius features such as colour, seeds and wear are equally important.
I don't possess any C20 examples (at least hope not), so can't say if the lead content/ring of later copies is the equal of the orginals -  perhaps you might comment.     Neither do I know how accurate in other respects the copies were, but I'd certainly agree that colour of glass is possibly one of better guides.

Perhaps Barry might comment on your thoughts. :)

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