Topic: Clayton Bros. Regd. No. 785302

[Paul S.]

In view of the similarity of names, I'd assumed that Clayton Bros. were connected in some way with Clayton Mayers, but having looked I'm unable to find any written evidence to support this in either Glen's or the Stewart's notes (but see below).
I was under the impression that C.M. were not at any time south of the River Thames (in the London area), but the relief wording on the base of this carafe/water jug includes the London postal district of S.W.18, which covers parts of Wimbledon and Wandsorth - which are certainly south of the river.
The full wording is.........CLAYTON BROS. LONDON S.W.18  -  RD. NO. 785302....  and this number is confirmed by the 'Blue Book' as being registered on 28th July 1933.                     Height of this piece is c. 6.5" (165mm).

Being very inefficient, and working back to front, and having typed the above, I then entered Clayton Bros. on the Board's search and came up with..............
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,25679.msg202682.html#msg202682...........   a thread which started in 2009, and appears to have run for a couple of years.
I have extracted from this thread part of post No. 6 from David W dated 04.11.10, in which he comments..........

""Thanks to all who are keeping an eye out for 19th or 20th century London glasshouses. The latest issue of Glass Circle News has just come up with a mould-blown (or press-moulded)  bottle-jug with applied handle and moulded in the base Clayton Bros. London, SW18. Rd No. 735702 (i.e. 1928). It apparently belongs to a descendant of the Clayton family but he does not know anything about the firm. This is also a new one to me. Can anyone provide further information on this firm"".

Obviously, I'd forgotten this matter completely.............so, does anyone know if any further information was found for Clayton Bros., or did the matter die the death?      Certainly nothing further was added to that particular thread.

Would seem that David didn't add any images for 735702, although judging by his description of the piece it may well have been similar to my Rd. No. 785302  -  perhaps carafes/water jugs were very common utility items in the 1920 - 30 period.





As Glen has pointed out previously, C.M. were agents, wholesalers and distributors only, and not manufacturers - so are they one and the same, or were there two companies by some remote chance?           Does seem a big coincidence if they were two separate companies.
 
 

[Anne]

Paul, I think the entry for Clayton Bros on this page answers your question re the number given in the earlier topic: http://www.glassmaking-in-london.co.uk/later-glasshouses - to me the jug appears to be the same as the one you show above, but its number as shown on the small image on David's page is a little indistinct  - it does appear to end in 302 rather than 702 though, and the 3 and the 8 are easily mistaken on poor pressings. I suggest dropping David a line as he would probably be pleased to see your images.

[Paul S.]

o.k. will do, and thanks for the link.           I agree that both David's example and mine appear identical designs, and the probability that David has mis-read his Rd. No. is given more credibility by the fact that there isn't an entry in the Blue Book for what David believes to be 735702 (although numerically this No. would occur in 1928).
I don't know how up-to-date David's site is, but certainly it doesn't seem that any more information is known about Clayton Bros.

I'll ask David to reply to this GMB thread direct if at all possible, so hopefully if he has anything to add you'll see it here soon.

Thanks again.

[Paul S.]

Pleased to say that David has now replied, and it's obvious that both his example and mine are same design and the same Rd. No.

""Hi Paul
Many thanks for your pics. My info came from a short piece in Glass Circle News by Andy McConnell (does glass on the Sunday Antiques Road Show) He includes a picture of the base and interprets the RD as 735303. I have to admit that I just took his word for it in his text. I have now taken another look at his pic (copy attached) and can see that it is ambiguous and could equally be an 8. Your picture is conclusive and agrees with the Glass Assns. list as you say. I will amend my web site accordingly. If OK with you I will send your pic showing the RD number to GC News for them to put in a correction - under your name of course.

i regret to say that info on Clayton Bros has not been forthcoming. I found two other Claytons which may be related but nothing on this one. I have also acquired two tumlers that from their moulded pattern might be Clayton Bros but they are not marked although the moulding is different from others that I do know - probably not a great deal of help. I  hope that your message board enterprise yields something. At the moment we do not even know the location of the factory in SW 18 which is Wandsworth. I wonder if their Museum or Library might be able to help?
Regards
David Watts                     Please let me know if you find anything.
Hi Paul
 I forgot to add the pic of the tumbler -herewith.
I should also have said that Andy got the pic of the jug from Michael Clayton, a grandson of the apparent owner of the glassworks. Unfortunately he does not know anything about it.
Many thanks David Watts.""

I've thanked David for the details - part of which reads:

..............""Assuming a family connection, then it's quite possible that Clayton Bros. of Wandsworth were similar to Clayton Mayers i.e. not manufacturers - only agents, wholesalers and distributors  -  I'm hoping to get to The National Archives on Tuesday, and it's possible I might be able to add more information after my visit  -  at least I might get details of their exact address in Wandsworth, and I'll keep you informed of any progress I make.
Should Kew not be able to offer anything new, then I'm sure that your suggestion of Wandsworth library or local museum will have something.                  Did Kelly's Directories include details of local firms do you know??  -  they might be easier to source.
 
My thanks also for providing a correction to the GC News - I might ask please David that if at all possible when linking the correction you might also mention The Glass Message Board when adding my name - they do after all provide the facility for publication of my occasional notes.""

Sorry, I can't seem to save a pic of David's tumbler, so can't add to this message, and it needs a tad re-sizing.         May I send to you Anne, and if possible you might add for me??
 

[Paul S.]

I've had some success with re-sizing and saving, so see what you think of the attached, although not quite as large as I'd wished

[Paul S.]

It seems to be o.k.  -  I must be getting better at these techie things

[Anne]

That worked fine Paul, and thank you for following this up with David Watts. I've never seen this design before as far as I can remember... interesting, eh?

By the way, you never need to pre-ask if you can me stuff to re-size, just drop it to me on an email with a note of what needs doing and where it's to go and I'll get it done for you.

[Anne]

Meanwhile, I've had my researcher head on, Paul and have dug up some information about Clayton Bros of SW18 - they were mineral water and syrup makers! 

Extracted from The London Gazette 6th October 1931.

Clayton Brothers (Overseas Mineral Water Supplies) Limited
The Companies Act, 1929
Notice is hereby given that a General Meeting of the Members of Clayton Brothers (Overseas Mineral Water Supplies) Limited, will be held at 140 East Hill, Wandsworth, London SW18 on Monday, the 9th day of November, 1931, at 3 o'clock in the afternoon, for the purpose of having an account laid before them by the Liquidator (pursuant to section 245 of the Companies Act, 1929), showing the manner in which the winding-up of the said Company has been conducted and the property of the Company disposed of, and of hearing any explanation that may be given by the Liquidator.
C.H. Dixon, Liquidator

I also found a notice in the Kenya Gazette dated 21 October 1947 regarding another London company E Wyer & Sons, who also traded as Clayton Brothers!

General Notice No. 1848
The Trade Marks Ordinance, 1930
Application No. 3657
Take notice that an application for the registration of the trade mark shown above [image not reproduced on GMB] in Class 42, in respect of syrups, fruit squashes, fruit juices and other preparations for making beverages, all being non-aerated, non-medicated and non-alcoholic, has been lodged by E Wyer & Sons, Ltd. (also trading as Clayton Brothers) of 140 East Hill, Wandsworth, London SW18 manufacturers whose address for service in the Colony is c/o Messrs Kaplan & Stratton, advocates, of PO Box 111, Nairobi.
The said trade mark will be registered after the expiration of 90 days from the date of this Gazette, provided no notice of opposition is received.
(To be associated with No. 3556 and another.)
W.B. Cumming, Registrar of Trade Marks, Nairobi, 9th October 1947.

And the 3rd thing I found was an item in the Corning Museum of Glass, USA, for something called Kola Nut Tonic, maker Clayton Brothers:  http://www.cmog.org/artwork/kola-nut-tonic

[Paul S.]

well done Anne, very useful work, which may be of great interest to David Watts  -  might you be forwarding these details to him??  -  certainly David is unaware of the Wandsworth address, and it all helps to fill in details for anyone else researching these companies.

So, it looks like the practice of being an agent, wholesaler and distributor was a common aspect of the Clayton business - but none of them appears to have been glass manufacturers.

It's unfortunate, from our pooint of view, that these parent companies seem to have contained other sub-companies within them  -  makes tracing and understanding who owned whom difficult at times.

I've been through the Blue Book, and wasn't aware of seeing any more registrations for Clayton Bros., other than this one from July 1933.
I have some of the Clayton Mayers 'Crystolac' tumblers showing four dots - which apparently indicates 1944.

thanks again for your work.                 

[Anne]

Yes I've emailed the info across to David Watts, Paul, and have had a reply. We suspect that there are still a lot more answers to find about this company, including why, if the Liquidator was called in in 1931, was the registered design date we have above 1933?  Was it the case that the liquidation took a number of years to process as has been seen with other companies, or was the liquidation stopped for some reason? Or was the mineral water company another within the same group of businesses, so there may have been a Clayton Brothers as well as a Clayton Brothers (Overseas Mineral Water Supplies) Limited? As ever, we have more questions than answers... (my theme song!)