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Author Topic: Etruscan vase bright azure blue opaline c1850,what is the picture,which country?  (Read 9304 times)

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Offline flying free

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Also of note:
Their shiny opaline versions (the one at CMOG and the three at the V&A) all have transfer printed decoration.
The one with enamelled decoration like mine is matt, as is mine presumably so the enamels would adhere?

And actually on my p.s. above, that bowl comes up under Richardson searches but in their description they do say firstly Richardson, then underneath Loetz, so I think that means it was previously ascribed to Richardson and has been subsequently changed to Loetz.

and also a correction
The second vase I linked to at CMOG is a 'similar' shape to the other Richardson vase in the CMOG but it isn't in fact the same shape completely.  And they are different shapes or sizes to the Richardson vases I linked to in the V&A so, although they were mould blown, there is variation in shape and also in the type of foot on them.  The rim is distinctive though.
m

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Offline keith

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No-one has mentioned Bacchus but I've no idea if they did blue vases,I've only seen 'white' in the books, ::) ;D ;D

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no, I've checked out their shapes and decorations and found no matches... so far.

I'm pretty sure I'm on the right track with Richardson's and Giller for mine  ;D  I'm just wondering what time period.

For yours I think it's also a piece decorated by Giller and probably by W.Thomas Webb.  The only thing that irks me, is yours has no foot of any kind, but there is one piece in the Art-Union journal which is a  bowl called a finger glass  and that has no foot either.  I'ts a very simple straight low sided curved intowards the base, shape.

edited to add:
Meant to say though, Rice, Harris and Son of Islington Glassworks were producing variously coloured glass including opalines iirc but I've only managed to find 10 or so pieces by them in the Great Exhibition 1851 book and none seemed to be opaline and none in this shape.  I would have thought that given Etruscan was the order of the day, and that the book gave over a double page spread just to them, they would have included some opaline or Etruscan in that, but there was none.

Richardson were fond of this shape
http://gorgeousglass.org.uk/richardsons/


m

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http://theantiquarian.us/Hist.%20Richardson%20Brothesr%20.htm
information here on Richardson.
One quote taken from the article

'The elimination of glass excise duty led to an immediate surge in new designs and colors being offered to the market.  At the Manchester Exhibition, W.H., B. & J. Richardson exhibited their products including opaline glass, layered and painted work.  It was also reported that Richardson was experimenting with new and improved colors:

“Richardson are directing considerable attention to the improvement of colored glass, in this are we yet lag behind our neighbors:  chemistry has at present done little for it in this country; these gentlemen have, however, already made great advances in rivaling the production of Bohemia:  and we have little doubt a few years hence, we shall see at least equal to the best of the imported articles, their specimens of opal glass are remarkably successful:  and of cutting, engraving, and polishing, thy supply examples second to none that have every been produced in this country.”  ' 

Information here on Thomas Webb:
     http://theantiquarian.us/Hist.%20Thomas%20Webb%20and%20Successor%20Co.htm

And a quote from the article about Etruscan glass and opaline glass:

'In 1836, Thomas Webb also dissolved his partnership with his retired partner John Shepherd at White House, and in December of the same year, he resigned the Richardson & Webb Partnership at the Wordsley Flint Glassworks.

Webb continued to developed new products.  In 1847, Webb was making opalescent glass decorated in an Etruscan style.'
 
Thinking about date for my vase, I wonder if in the late 1840's opaline glass was only being produced in white?  In one of  the Art Union journals of 1846 they were talking about seeing English ruby glass that matched any Bohemian glass.  So perhaps if my vase is English it would be later.  I need the CH book to look at the dates given for Rice, Harris and Son opaline as I do recall it said in there, they produced it in many colours.

Editing to add later:
I meant to say I came across something in the official catalogue of the Great Exhibition 1851.  Under
Davis, Greathead and Green it said :
'Cut glass decanters, water jugs, goblets, ruby centres and stands, lustres with ruby and flint drops, cut and enamelled, coloured hock and other wine glasses, a great variety of ornamental vases, white, opal, frosted, Mazareen (sic) blue, and topaz; painted, enamelled, cut and engraved. '

This was the only special mention of blue under the makers I could find.  I've looked up Mazarine blue and I don't think my vase really fits that colour.  However my vase is a very intense glowing kind of blue, that I've been unable to match really.  It is also strangely decorated and could be described as painted rather than enamelled perhaps? Hence my questioning Davis, Greathead and Green with Keith under another thread yesterday :)
m

   
m

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3rd page from the end of this book shows glass from C. Bacchus and Sons Birmingham, described as '...blue flint glass, enamelled, cut, engraved and gilt..'
So yes, they did do blue glass.  Unfortunately these pics and description don't match my vase :)
the book is
Victorian Glassworks: Glass Culture and the Imagination 1830-1880 by Isobel Armstrong.


http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=EosjR1OlEecC&pg=PA392&dq=manchester+exhibition+rice+harris&hl=en&sa=X&ei=koR5UtCkKaOv7AbBl4DwBA&ved=0CDkQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=manchester%20exhibition%20rice%20harris&f=false

And in the Official Catalogue of the Great Exhibition under Richardson it says
'...Opal, cornelian, chrysolite and Turkey glass ornamented in enamel colours...'
No idea what Turkey glass is though.
m

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Offline keith

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There are some interesting pictures in 'The Hallmarks of Antique Glass' by R.Wilkinson of these types of ware,although some mis-attributions,eg Kralik piece listed as Richardsons, ;D

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In Miller's Glass Antiques Checklist - Mark West consultant
page 157
There are a pair of the vases I linked to in the Corning here (presumably one of them ended up at the Corning)
http://www.cmog.org/artwork/acid-etched-vase
It says they are decorated with brown and black enamels.
I am more than convinced my vase originated at Richardson's - call me stubborn  ;D

http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=53085.0;attach=132744;image

Further down the page it says
'At the Great Exhibition, the British Factories showed a spectacular range of colours:  Rice Harris of Birmingham, for example, included opal, alabaster, turquoise, amber, canary, topaz, chrsyoprase, pink, blue, light and dark ruby, black, brown, green and purple.'
m

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with ref my the dates I mused on earlier in the thread:

'Etruscan vases were around for a good 15 years in vogue as far as I can see from the Harrach book ( popularity possibly waned around 1862 ish?)and were clearly in vogue during the great Exhibition of 1851 from what has been written about them.  That would be 4 years on from the depiction in the Art Union magazine, ... '


It appears from reading, that 'Etruscan' glass items were alive and kicking at the 1862 Great London Exhibition and according to the Harrach book, they were at the height of production at Harrach in 1865.   The Harrach book also mentions that transfer prints became more common in the 1860's and that the vases with medallion type portraits on them were being produced then.
So it seems, if the Richardson vase I linked to in the CMOG was originally produced in 1847, then 'Etruscan' style in glass was in for quite a long period but the type of production of it developed and changed in design over that period.
The book mentions the popularity of these products and says production was typified on white opal glass when referring to this 'later' period.  When discussing the 'earlier' period and comparison to Giller's decorated vases, it talks about Harrach producing alabaster glass.

White opal glass is clearly white and 'alabaster' I believe refers to white as well.  No mention of coloured background glass for the body.

My vase isn't transfer printed.  It's enamelled with something. 

With reference coloured opaline glass in the UK:
Richardson were producing yellow opaline in the 1830's according to Andrew Lineham's site where he has a rare pair of marked Richardson's yellow opaline decanters dated to the 1830's.
And they also produced green opaline - there is another piece on there dated 1855 that is green and white
http://www.antiquecolouredglass.info/British%20Glass.htm

As an aside (re Keith and Mel's vases)
The Harrach book does also mention the similarity of earlier products to those decorated by Mr Giller in terms of the black decoration on white glass and also the type of motifs used.  There is a picture in there of two vases with a similar motif around the top to my vase, which again is remarkably similar to a motif used by Giller.  They also featured the waves type motif that Giller used.  All those motifs are motifs also seen on pottery and porcelain in Etruscan style though, however the two vases featured as patterns in the Harrach book do have remarkable similarities in design (but not shape) to those featured in the Art Union magazine from Mr Giller.

m

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My CH British Glass 1800-1914 arrived this morning thank goodness :)

An interesting observation having looked through it and the Harrach book.  Earlier in the thread I commented on my shape being 'Richardson'.  CH comments regarding some J.G.Green engraved pieces featured at the Great Exhibition (engraving of the pieces is shown in the book page 135)
'The shape of the jugs in this group suggests  they are from the Richardson factory'.  Interesting because when I came across that engraving online I wondered about Green being as possible source for my piece because of those shapes. 

Also, looking through the Harrach book page 189, the author comments on an engraved jug saying that engraved glass formed only a small part of the Harrach production in the 1860's, but comments citing three references to Richardson, Naylor and Co and Green pieces (all pieces I'd looked at and thought 'ooh maybe' for my vase), on the similarity of form to English glass of this period.

Taking into account Charles Hajdamach's comments, the comments in the Harrach book and my own instinctive observations, it seems Richardson did use a fairly 'distinctive' shape that is noticeable to the eye.  I think my vase falls into that category :)

this is a link to a different piece of 'Etruscan' glass from Richardson, it has a clumpy foot and large knop on under the vase.
http://blackcountryhistory.org/collections/getrecord/DMUSE_ST125/

The only problem I'm having is finding any definite English/Richardson's blue opaline glass from this period  :-\

m

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Keith is there anything similar in the book you referred to above please?
I'm out of book money at the moment given my latest purchase, so would appreciate any help if it is in there?
thanks :)
m

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