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Author Topic: at last!  (Read 459 times)

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Offline bat20

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at last!
« on: August 31, 2013, 10:35:09 AM »
At last i've found a bit of pressed glass with a date lozenge,that isn't damaged ;D.It was right at the bottom of a box and seems new!..

Offline agincourt17

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Re: at last!
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2013, 01:35:34 PM »
Your purple malachite posy basket was made by Sowerby (hence the peacock head trademark), and the lozenge translates to 13 February 1877 Parcel 8, which covers a bundle of 11 design registrations (RDs 307686 to 307696).

The Sowerby pattern number is 1192, and it appears on page 2 of the Sowerby pattern book 2 (1882). The pattern book also indicates that in comes in open or closed forms (both with the same pattern number).

As with many of these Sowerby design registration bundles, Im not yet sure of which of the particular RD numbers in the bundle correlates with this particular Sowerby pattern number. Cottle only correlates:
RD 307686 with pattern number 1191
RD 307688 with pattern number 1187
RD 307693 with pattern number 1193.

I only have a turquoise vitro-porcelain example on the Sowerby photo reference gallery at
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?album=1001&pos=102
so I wonder if I might have your permission to add a copy of your first image to the gallery, please (with appropriate credit, of course)?

Fred

Offline bat20

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Re: at last!
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2013, 02:02:31 PM »
Thanks for the info Fred and please feel free to use the image :).

Offline Paul S.

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Re: at last!
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2013, 03:23:59 PM »
I've looked at the National Archive pix for Rd. Nos. 307687 - 696, and none of these agrees with the image of this handled basket shaped posy vase.            Unfortunately, for some reason I don't have a pic of 307686, so quickly assumed that logically this basket must therefore be No.  307686 - assuming Fred has interpreted the lozenge details correctly.                We do of course know that this basket design is Sowerby pattern 1192 (or 1192.1/2) because it's in the factory pattern books.

However, this basket appears not to be 307686, because according to Cottle that No. has been allocated to a Wall Pocket Vase, with factory pattern No. 1191, and this is substantiated by the factory pattern books.                   As none of my pix from Kew shows the Wall Pocket Vase, I'm very tempted to assume that 307686 is indeed the Wall Pocket Vase, although why I missed this one I don't know.

So.......... that accounts for all of Fred's Nos. 307686 to 307696, but still leaves us without a Kew image, plus Rd. No., for this handled basket.

However, there seems to be some confusion regarding Rd. 307688 - factory pattern 1187 - with regard to shape and description as detailed by Cottle.

The attached Archives pic shows 307688 (factory pattern 1187) as a small rectangular posy vase with almost identical pattern to our basket  -  BUT in Simon Cottle's book 307688/1187 is described as a 'basket vase'  -  i.e. the sort of design we have on this piece                  Within this situation, might we have an example of the one Rd. No. 307688 covering both the basket shape (factory pattern 1192) and the small rectangular posy (factory pattern 1187)?


Offline agincourt17

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Re: at last!
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2013, 03:54:28 PM »
Thank you, Paul.

Although it is upside down in the photo, the lozenge on the purple malachite basket is definitely that for 13 February 1877 - Parcel 8.

Once again, these Sowerby multi-RD registration bundles are highlighting some confusion as to which particular RD number correlates with a given Sowerby pattern number.

Thank you for clarifying the RD307688 / pattern 1187 correlation.

I certainly have several other examples of Sowerby pieces in different patterns with the same lozenge, even though that lozenge correlates with only a single design registration (and RD number) - usually the common factor being some decorative design element rather than a shape, in the case of 1187 / 1192 the common factor presumably being the basketweave decoration.

Fred.



Offline Paul S.

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Re: at last!
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2013, 04:18:55 PM »
I rotated the screen pic, and for the life of me still couldn't decypher the lozenge details of this purple basket  -  other than seeing a figure 8 for the parcel. 

There does seem to be some possible confusion here over the choice of word description beteween Simon Cottle's book and the Sowerby factory pattern images  -  I wouldn't have thought you could describe 307688/1187 as a basket (doesn't something need handles to qualify for a basket?)  -  but who knows...........maybe the Victorians has some odd looking baskets.

This would solve the mystery as to why there isn't a separate Kew image for this basket  -  and explain why Simon Cottle omits factory pattern 1192 from his list  i.e. Sowerby never did submit a drawing of this basket to the Board of Trade.

Offline bat20

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Re: at last!
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2013, 06:05:28 PM »
I've had a good look at it now and i think i can confirm,year     P   1877
                                                                                month G   feb
                                                                                parcel no   8   
                                                                                day           13
                                                               

Offline Paul S.

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Re: at last!
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2013, 06:56:48 PM »
the idea is that you're supposed to give these details at the outset  -  it saves us all getting headaches ;D           

The existing subject heading is unhelpful to future searches, so would seem rather obvious to amend to something relating to the item, please :)

Offline bat20

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Re: at last!
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2013, 07:24:13 PM »
He He,yes sorry i have to admit to a bit of over excitement ,a lozenge mark had become a bit of a grail hunt for me,please feel free to change the heading for the sake of people looking things up.

 

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