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Author Topic: Function of 19th C. Glass?  (Read 2920 times)

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Offline SNJ

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Function of 19th C. Glass?
« on: September 03, 2013, 07:19:04 PM »
I'm guessing by the round cut lenses, thick base and polished pontil that this is a late Georgian or early Victorian piece of glass.  Just wondered if anyone is able to suggest what it may have been made for - the rim, at 3.5mm, seems too thick to be a drinking glass and it is roughly bevelled on either side. Is it just a flower vase? Any opinions would be appreciated!

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-vp00I539gOw/UiY1iw91nQI/AAAAAAAAEME/F7hyM70bxWc/s576/P9030073.JPG?gl=GB

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-g9fQAMViT5w/UiY1f6oeLtI/AAAAAAAAEL0/R1GFoWNgSW8/s576/P9030071.JPG?gl=GB

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-a5mcObQoPh0/UiY1hkcOnpI/AAAAAAAAEL8/7Qbb6qsR-1g/s576/P9030072.JPG?gl=GB

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-0qj-BDoEKC0/UiY1dbSu7OI/AAAAAAAAELs/Qd99dcX1_Q4/s576/P9030070.JPG?gl=GB

Offline bat20

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Re: Function of 19th C. Glass?
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2013, 07:38:22 PM »
Might be a jelly glass,someone with more idea will be along soon..

Offline oldglassman

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Re: Function of 19th C. Glass?
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2013, 07:44:41 PM »
HI ,
                  I would say it is an ale glass but was taller when it started life , the rim looks like it has been ground down to me , these types should have a nicely rounded fire polished bowl rim.

cheers ,
              Peter.

Offline SNJ

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Re: Function of 19th C. Glass?
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2013, 08:46:11 PM »
Thanks for that, Peter. It would make sense as the top edge isn't as smooth as it might be and is too flat. It's still an impressive height at 6.5" - must have been stunning originally!

Simon

Offline Paul S.

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Re: Function of 19th C. Glass?
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2013, 09:46:06 PM »
certainly an ale glass, and may have been cut down, but not impossible for this to have been its original height.        Not sure that I understand if you're saying the rim is cut similar to non-British examples, then bevelled, or just bevelled.          Continental glasses often have a cut and bevelled rim as opposed to the British fire polished finish.            Just looked at the ten cut examples I have and the height varies from 7.25" to 7.75".            I don't have sufficient Continental examples to say whether those are shorter, on the average, or not.

These slender cut thumb print ales are fairly common, and l also thought they were flower vases when I first saw one  -   they're even more common in their pressed form.
The lenses are refered to usually as 'punties' - which apparently comes from their similarity to the circular deperession found under the foot, where the pontil scar was removed (punty being an equivalent to the punty rod which was responsible for leaving the scar).

The lenses are circular usually, although occasionally oval, and rarely you'll find a previous owner's name up near the rim, scratched on with diamond point.
The lenses seem to vary a lot, and there might be as few as three bands, or as many as six, but they always appear neat and well done, unlike the pressed examples which as you'd imagine are rather blotchy.

Date wise, these slender sorts with fairly bright glass date from the earlier part of the last quarter of the C19, probably, but I have to be honest and say that  my ideas for this come from the pressed examples, which can be found in catalogues from the pressed glass factories  -  Sowerby for example.

As a form of decoration on pub/tavern glasses, these cut lenses seem to have been common throughout most of the Victorian period, but as far as I'm aware not earlier than that  .......  other than perhaps some slightly similar 'hollows'.         I have other similar cut thumb print ales - shorter and darker in colour - plus some rummers which I am inclined to think date more to the early to mid Victorian period, rather than the later period of these tall examples.             Dating some of these pub/tavern ale glasses is not easy  -  some might show scars, others have ground pontils and yet others again have that 'swirl' finish under the foot  (more an indication of c. 1900, I think.)   
But fairly safe to say examples like yours are around the 1870 - 1880 period - but certainly not Georgian.

Good to collect, smallish footprint, not too expensive, and as Peter would say, 'you can use them'.              sorry this is long winded :-[

Offline Paul S.

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Re: Function of 19th C. Glass?
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2013, 09:48:59 PM »
meant to add.........I'll post some pix of my darker shorter examples tomorrow - illustrating the height variation in these things. :)

Offline Ivo

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Re: Function of 19th C. Glass?
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2013, 05:31:09 AM »
Selery is another option.

Offline Paul S.

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Re: Function of 19th C. Glass?
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2013, 08:11:23 AM »
in that case here are some more potential celery vases............... ;)

the taller examples of ales shown in the first and second pix are all about 6.5" (165mm) tall.            The rummer shown in pic two is 6" (155mm)  -   and the darker coloured rummer in pic three is about 5.75" (145mm).

All have fire polished rims and depressions under the feet, and the taller of the two rummers has a lead glass ring.            The last pic is just to show the pressed equivalent of the shorter examples with lenses.

The idea was to show the size variation in the taller type, also hopefully to show the colour variation.         I'm not sure why some are dark (in the flesh the colour difference is very noticable) - might be one of several reasons.................  excess of decolourizer, too much lead oxide, another chemical reaction to daylight perhaps.
Ideas sought please  -  most examples of these glasses aren't like the dark ones here, which are almost remeniscent of Georgian grey.

One of the reasons, apparently, that some of the later Georgian glass was a tad darker than usual, was due to the lead oxide being sourced from some Derbyshire mines  -  it contained an impurity it seems which they tried to eradicate, but couldn't, and found the glass workers preferred it anyway.

Date wise, I had thought the darker pieces were perhaps 1840 - 1860 - definitely earlier than those of a more normal colour - but this is really just my opinion - although as said earlier I'm fairly sure they don't pre-date Victoria's period.             Again, ideas welcome please.  :)

Apologies to Simon for adding to his post, and hope he doesn't object too much - just that I though it might be of interest to show the variation in these things.
       

Offline oldglassman

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Re: Function of 19th C. Glass?
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2013, 08:27:42 AM »
Hi,
     Minimalist celery vase , for 1 stick !!!! ;D

   Looking at the cut lenses on this one which if you look the top lenses there bottoms are between the lenses below,if you see what I mean ,so I think that very little has been taken off ,if there had been another layer of lenses above the top one there bases would still be present , so a haircut methinks , but definitely ground I am sure I can see grinding marks and the remnants of a small chip to the edge,as to age ,I think it has all been said.

cheers ,
                 Peter.

Offline David E

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Re: Function of 19th C. Glass?
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2013, 08:39:46 AM »
It's not that far short of a celery, IMHO, as they were made in a variety of sizes. A flared top would be more applicable in this case, so perhaps it has been shortened. I always thought (in my limited experience, admittedly) that ale glasses were far shorter and wider? More like those in the last two of Paul's photos.

Simon: Could we have the diameter of the top, height of the 'bowl' please?

(and welcome to the rough & tumble of GMB!  ;D )
David
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