Author Topic: Sowerby pattern number 1877  (Read 111 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Keencollector

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 77
Sowerby pattern number 1877
« on: October 02, 2014, 12:50:31 PM »
In Sowerby Illustrated Pattern Book No. XV - September, 1895 there appears on page 18, a butter dish, sugar with lid and a creamer which is marked as pattern number 1877.  I am trying to find if this has a registration number and where to find it. 

I have checked Jenny Thompson's book and Colin Lattermore's book.  Any suggestions from learned members of the board as to where I may find this or would this not be registered.   Thanking you in advance for any information.


Offline Paul S.

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 6003
  • Gender: Male
Re: Sowerby pattern number 1877
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2014, 01:46:16 PM »
might be useful to show at least one of these items  -  all of which I believe show vertical rows of a stylized sort of daisy type prunt, and all pieces are on stems.
All three are shown on page 7 of the Thistlewood's CD Volume Three under the heading of 'Sowerby Glass in Pictures'  -  according to Glen it occurs in clear and purple malachite.
From memory the Thistlewood CD catalogues do not show corresponding Board of Trade Registration Nos. for the factory pattern Nos., but it would be useful to know the date of the first outing for pattern 1877.

I can't see this design/decoration in the books either - although it may be shown somewhere on the 49 pages of the  '06 pressed glass Registrations, which I assume is mostly the handiwork of Fred  -  so he may have the answer. :)

Bearing in mind that pattern No. 1877 may well occur after the lozenge period, this means I probably don't have immediate access to a Kew picture.              Of course if it was Registered before January 1884, then let me know and I should be able to access something.


Offline Paul S.

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 6003
  • Gender: Male
Re: Sowerby pattern number 1877
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2014, 02:16:19 PM »
not that it really helps towards providing the Rd. No., but............

coming back to the Thistlewood CD Volume Three - Pattern Book XI for 1885......
Two of these pieces can be seen at the bottom of page 100 (unfortunately the pattern No. has been cut off but design is recognizable) - and another piece, with 1877, is at the top of page 104.

If 1885 was the first airing for this design, then it will have been manufactured a little after the end of the  lozenge period.


Offline agincourt17

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 1095
  • Gender: Male
    • Pressed glass 1840-1900
    • Wales
Re: Sowerby pattern number 1877
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2014, 02:21:14 PM »
Unfortunately Sowerby pattern book XV (1895) does not indicate which of the patterns are from registered designs (though some are, indeed, known to be from registered designs).

Simon Cottle’s ‘Sowerby – Gateshead Glass’ links many Sowerby design registrations to their pattern numbers, but  pattern 1877 is not among them.

The Glass Queries Gallery at
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/thumbnails.php?album=1001
is dedicated to photos of Sowerby pieces numbers organised by pattern number (and correlated, where known, with their registered design numbers), but Sowerby pattern 1877 is not shown.

I still have photos of lots of Sowerby pieces to add to the gallery, but pattern 1877 is not among them either. In fact, the Thistlewood Vol. 3 CD-ROM is the only place that I can remember that shows photos of pieces in the pattern.

Although the Sowerby pattern numbers from known registered designs tend to follow
a broad chronological sequence there are quite a few anomalies that fail to conform to the sequence numbering. Having said that, here is a brief list of known Sowerby patterns from around pattern number 1877 correlated with their registered design numbers :

#1874      RD 42947   registered 10 February 1886   

#1896      RD 54314   registered 18 August 1886   

#1901      RD 48909   registered 11 May 1886

#1913      RD 56963   registered 23 September 1886   

#1921      RD 64086   registered 22 December 1886   

So, if Sowerby pattern number 1877 pieces are from registered designs, then they are reasonably likely to have been registered in 1886.

Fred.


Offline Paul S.

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 6003
  • Gender: Male
Re: Sowerby pattern number 1877
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2014, 04:27:17 PM »
could be a tad earlier Fred  -  Pattern Book XI - pages 100 and 104 which I mentioned, is quoted in the CD catalogues as having a date of 1885 - but still beyond the end of the lozenge period.

Something else that probably isn't a hard and fast rule is..............   looking at many of the earlier pattern Nos. in Pattern Book XI from 1885, as you'll know many are accompanied by a small drawing of a lozenge  -  however, many of the later patterns are without this addition.        I think we've been over this matter before, but I can't remember if it's a reliable indicator of Registration or not.

A problem might be that National Archive pix will probably only show a shape and not the decoration.

I think this one is going to be on the backburner for a while.


Offline Keencollector

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 77
Re: Sowerby pattern number 1877
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2014, 04:26:16 AM »
Sorry for the delay in posting photos.  These two items do not have registration diamonds or Sowerby peacock mark.


Offline Paul S.

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 6003
  • Gender: Male
Re: Sowerby pattern number 1877
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2014, 08:04:39 AM »
There is no comment by Glen Thistlewood - on the CD catalogue - as to whether or not the pieces shown include a trade mark and/or Rd. No.  -  but in view of your comments about the absence of both, then it isn't unreasonable to assume the moulds for 1877 weren't provided with either.

On Glen's CD catalogue there are additional comments regarding pattern 1877, to the effect that this was a three part set which included a covered butter, covered sugar and creamer, although the authors of the CD considered it possible that items were sold without lids.             Certainly in Pattern Book XI both the sugar and butter are shown with lids.

These are nice pieces and I'd imagine quite scarce  -  my own feeling is that the design probably wasn't Registered, but it needs more digging perhaps to be sure. 


Offline Keencollector

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 77
Re: Sowerby pattern number 1877
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2014, 12:31:28 PM »
Thank you Paul and Fred for your informative information.  Looks like we are at a dead end as it is also my guess that it wasn't registered.  Much appreciate your effort in trying to find out more on date of this pattern.  I hadn't realised pattern was so uncommon and it is a shame there isn't a lid.

Margaret.


 

Search
eBay.com
eBay.co.uk

Link to Glass Encyclopedia
Link to Glass Museum
Enter
key words
to search
Amazon.com