Author Topic: Pedestal paperweight. Faked Schneider signature  (Read 18814 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline wrightoutlook

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 359
Pedestal paperweight. Faked Schneider signature
« on: May 12, 2006, 06:41:21 PM »
I would greatly appreciate some help identifying this beautiful pedestal paperweight, which is a new purchase.

There is great heft to the weight and superb clarity of the glass. The paperweight weighs 2 pounds, 11.2 ounces. And the glass is crystal clear -no bubbles or striations. The glass coloring is pure - no yellow or greenish cast. Even exquisite Millville roses have some minor striation and bubbling. Not from China either, due to the quality of the glass and crafstmanship of the blue flower and green petal lampwork. The flower is flawless with lovely shades of blue and the petals are perfect.

On the underside, there is a signature. The word Schneider appears in stylized script form. Impossible to capture on camera. What fascinates me about the word Schneider is that it seems to be floating inside the glass base. Can't be felt. Not raised, etched, or embossed.

I know there was a famed glass art family named Schneider in France at either Galle or Daum - not sure which, but I thought they only made vases and bowls and lamps.

I have never seen any pedestal like this, so any help or insight is much coveted and you have my sincere thanks.

Mod:  Photo's uploaded to GlassGallery:
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-5954

http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-5953


Offline Max

  • Global Moderator
  • Members
  • *
  • Posts: 3473
  • Gender: Female
Pedestal paperweight. Faked Schneider signature
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2006, 10:16:53 PM »
I'm not great on paperweights...but...

I thought initially this looked Chinese, but perhaps Wright is right.  It does look exceptionally well formed.  The pedestal is perfect, the globe is perfectly round.  I think it's rather lovely.  :)

Not knowing much about paperweights, I Googled 'Schneider paperweight'.  I found an Eric Schneider and another that I couldn't get to load up (which looked the closest to Wrights paperweight, annoyingly! lol).  

I'm not an expert in paperweights...this paperweight just looked rather well made to me.  :?
I am not a man


Offline wrightoutlook

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 359
the mystery continues
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2006, 01:38:45 AM »
Thanks for your comments. It's most assuredly not China-made. The glass doesn't have that soapy feel. As I stated above, the quality of the glass is premium - no cullets, bubbles, or striations. Whatever the perfect equivalent is in glass, the "crystal" is pure "white." None of that yellowy or greenish tint. And the lampwork flower is spotless and pristine. I've seen some of the large China-made weights, with the open lily pad flower with the hovering bee or the lily pad flower with the sitting frog and my weight has superior lampwork technique.

Here is the only link I could find on-line to an image of a Schneider paperweight. The image is from a past auction. Although the flower is different, the description (a different URL) and quality of the weight and the smooth clear glass, all point to my weight being from the same glassmaker. But who is this Schneider? German? French? Contemporary or vintage? I gather that a gentleman paperweight expert named Bob Hall has written a book on Schneider glass. I hope he reads this board.

Note: The image is slow to download, even with a cable modem. But it does show up.

http://www.dargate.com/225_auction/225_pics/1462.jpg


Offline aa

  • Glass Professional
  • Members
  • ***
  • Posts: 1777
    • http://www.adamaaronson.com
Re: Unsure of maker of this beautiful pedestal paperweight.
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2006, 01:01:11 PM »
Quote from: "wrightoutlook"
Not from China either, due to the quality of the glass and crafstmanship of the blue flower and green petal lampwork. The flower is flawless with lovely shades of blue and the petals are perfect.


What makes you so sure this is not from China? The quality of Chinese glass has been improving so it could be Chinese.
Hello & Welcome to the Board! Sometimes my replies are short & succinct, other times lengthy. Apologies in advance if they are not to your satisfaction; my main concern is to be accurate for posterity & to share my limited knowledge
For information on exhibitions & events and to see images of my new work join my Facebook group
https://www.facebook.com/adamaaronsonglass
Introduction to Glassblowing course:a great way to spend an afternoon http://www.zestgallery.com/glass.


Offline wrightoutlook

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 359
here's why
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2006, 01:40:10 PM »
There are myriad reasons why it's not from China, most of which I've articulated above. There are clearly defined characteristics regarding all paperweights, even China-made paperweights. This weight fits none of the Chinese factors. It's a signed Schneider, so now we have to discover who or what Schneider is.

Additionally, if it were from China, hundreds of others would have the same weight and most assuredly, some of these people would be contributors to this board. China's glass industry doesn't simply release one-off paperweights. And the odds of a one-off paperweight showing up at a cluttered antique shop in Chicago USA are long. The owner of the shop said she had read about a man she thinks is Charles Schneider in France, and I'm still doing resarch on this aspect, but I'm not finding any paperweights.

In all collecting, there are absolutes - those things of which we can be sure. Regarding some weights, it might be one thing, or it could be many. A weight that is not bubbly, non-striated, not soapy to the touch, has a precision-ground and polished base, has a pristine lampwork flower, and is crystal clear in terms of coloring is not Chinese. Flowers in Chinese paperweights have a clearly defined look, which helps identify them as Chinese. And 100% of the large and/or pedestal Chinese weights I've seen will have a flower with some creature from the animal industry attached to it, be it a bird, a bee, a frog, or a butterfly. Yes, even the oft-maligned China-made paperweight industry has generated definite absolutes regarding its output.

And, if it were Chinese, where is the rest of the production run? The owner of the shop said she bought it at a flea market in Wisconsin, and the item has been in her shop for about a year, just waiting for the right buyer.


Offline aa

  • Glass Professional
  • Members
  • ***
  • Posts: 1777
    • http://www.adamaaronson.com
Pedestal paperweight. Faked Schneider signature
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2006, 01:51:56 PM »
Could you post a photo of the signature please.
Hello & Welcome to the Board! Sometimes my replies are short & succinct, other times lengthy. Apologies in advance if they are not to your satisfaction; my main concern is to be accurate for posterity & to share my limited knowledge
For information on exhibitions & events and to see images of my new work join my Facebook group
https://www.facebook.com/adamaaronsonglass
Introduction to Glassblowing course:a great way to spend an afternoon http://www.zestgallery.com/glass.


Offline m1asmithw8s

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 214
  • Gender: Male
    • http://s127.photobucket.com/albums/p158/m1asmith/
Pedestal paperweight. Faked Schneider signature
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2006, 05:37:23 AM »
It's Murano.
Not 'Chinese Murano' but a weight made in Italy on the island of Murano.
The flower is a crocus.
I have one in my collection pictured here:
 http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?album=66&pos=18

Murano makers have been known to occasionally place a faux Schneider signature on the base of some weights.
This signature is much fainter than that on an authentic Schneider piece but is otherwise a good match.
I have several Murano weights in my collection with this faux Schneider signature including a pedestal tulip weight.

Schneider did not make many paperweights and those that they did make were very simple items that did not employ any torchwork or lampwork techniques but rather had simple control bubble designs.


Offline wrightoutlook

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 359
thank you
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2006, 12:39:32 PM »
Thank you Mark for your superb reply. I am very pleased to have my question answered with knowledge, insight, common sense, and a photograph to boot.

Do you have any idea as to why some of the Muranese makers would go to such lengths to do this? Frankly, this pedestal weight, and I am sure the ones you and others have, are exquisite enough to stand alone as beautiful works of paperweight art. One would think that the Muranese would be proud to make a weight of this beauty and perfection and sign it themselves. Why place a fake signature in it? And a faint one at that.

I guess I just don't get it. And, I'm not a naive person; I do understand that the world is full of artists claiming attributions that turn out to be false. But couldn't the maker or makers of these lovely pedestal perfections looked at them and appreciated them as works that stand tall?

I've read herein of other fakery and it astonishes me. If someone makes a gorgeous paperweight why not sign it proudly with one's own name? Oh well, it's the way of the world I guess.

Of course, there is another possibility. Perhaps there actually is (or was) a Mr. Schneider working at one of the glassworks on Murano. A Gunther or a Gerhart - not Charles at all, who was in France at Galle or Daum.  Perhaps this Muranese Schneider was Italian-German or German-Italian. Or perhaps he was a Swiss fellow named Franz who moved to Murano Island to craft glass. And he made these wonderful pedestal paperweights and signed them legitimately because his name was Schneider. Frankly, this all makes sense. Why assume only Italians make glass on Murano?

Again, I think you for your spot-on comments. You've opened up a new way of thinking about glass attribution.


Offline m1asmithw8s

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 214
  • Gender: Male
    • http://s127.photobucket.com/albums/p158/m1asmith/
Pedestal paperweight. Faked Schneider signature
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2006, 01:38:27 PM »
To Wrightoutlook:  To answer your last part first, the island of Murano has a rich history of inhouse glassmaking. The signature that you see is as faint as it is because of the process of the forgery.
Over time, and that is almost always the case with collectiing, the passage of time and the inherent experience & knowledge that comes with time, I have seen several Murano weights with this faux Schneider signature. They've done it with Baccarat too employing the same process of copying with the same faint result. Why do they do it? As you say, one can only guess but ostensibly to garner a premium price for a non premium weight.
Murano is also known for inserting fake 19th century date canes into their modern millefiore weights. Unsuspecting tourists & neophyte collectors can be fooled by these as well.

I'm with you in that when they or the Chinese make a superb weight, the beauty and artistic acheivement stands on it's own which is why I have such weights in my collection.


Offline dfernbach

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 49
Pedestal paperweight. Faked Schneider signature
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2006, 09:11:41 AM »
Mark,
Assuming that the Schneider signature is a forgery would lead one to believe that Schneider is someone well-known enough to be forged.  Do you know anything about Schneider?

 

Search
eBay.com
eBay.co.uk

Link to Glass Encyclopedia
Link to Glass Museum
Enter
key words
to search
Amazon.com