Author Topic: Pedestal paperweight. Faked Schneider signature  (Read 18804 times)

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Offline Frank

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Pedestal paperweight. Faked Schneider signature
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2006, 09:13:08 AM »
It takes a highly skilled paperweight artist to make a convincing fake of a master. Yet there seems no shortage with fakes of many 'names' cropping up. Larger fake production needs the facilities of a glasshouse and several people working.

The bottom line is as ever greed. However, I am sure there is a motivation that gives some justification to the glassmaker - Each month they have a large gas or electric bill, the market decides the price of their weights and at the same time they are aware that another makers weights are fetching ten or more times as much. There they are sweating and struggling to make ends meet and along comes a 'spiv' dealer with the suggestion to produce 50 weights in the style of xxxxx. Perhaps it made the difference in their survival, certainly they would have seen much smaller profit than the dealer. It is still a crime but it is one that is created by the demand from collectors for something made by a dead master. If all collectors also put a significant part of their money into directly purchased weights from local makers then the pressures to create fakes will be lower. There will always be the bad fish that enjoys the game, like Tom Keating for example.

Probably the best known forger of paintings was Elmer de Hory whose fakes are so sought after that they have themselves been faked.

The best fakers gain notoriety and can almost become social heroes as well as boosting the value of their own work - possibly after a short stay in prison. In almost every forgery case the artist remains famous but the corrupting dealer disappears into obscurity. Some crooked justice!
Frank A.
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Offline wrightoutlook

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all very fascinating
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2006, 03:58:42 PM »
Just a couple of comments. I do appreciate the input and I love the turn the thread is taking

The key factor here is that the weight is beautiful. Quite exquisite. As always, photographs don't capture the beauty. The light blue petals in the flower are utterly flawless. The sharpness of the glass, the lay of the green leaves all indicate somebody with talent made this weight. Mark (m1asmithw8s) indicates he has others in his private collection and I can accept that there are other examples of these Schneider pedestal flowers in the marketplace.

Which brings us to that vital question. Whoever made this weight is either a Schneider working somewhere, most likely Murano -- perhaps as I have stated an Italian-German or an Italian-Swiss -- or he or she has knowledge of paperweights made by a Schneider. But if Charles Schneider (of France's Galle and Daum) never made pedestal weights, then who the heck is this talented faker faking? Why put a Schneider signature - ever so faintly - in a gorgeous work of glass art like this if there is no sourced reference to these weights?

As for Simone's comment that Muranese companies are outsourcing work to China, I will go with Mark's very determined comments, made back in March and April in very long threads about Chinese weights and that whole messy situation, that glass factories on Murano are not doing it. I agree with his sharp perception that it would be pointless and makes no sense. Those two threads are headed: "Murano versus Chinese weights" and "A new weight, but I'm baffled as to maker -- any ideas?" Also in one of those threads the name of the legendary EstlinClichy came up. I've been reading the board for about seven months before I joined (time wasn't on my side - my architecture firm was working on a huge project) and I've read EC's comments. Frankly, I question the wisdom of pulling everything he/she wrote, because there were some very salient points being made.

One of the intersting things we are seeing is that -- based on threads herein -- now that eBay's in China, numerous fake auctions are occurring as unscrupulous sellers are finding their way around eBay. And, it's not just paperweights that are being folded into scam online sales. It's practically everything. I guess -- and I sincerely hope this isn't offending anyone -- that we really should be a touch leary of the Chinese behemoth. In fact, one of the posters in this thread had one of his auctions duplicated. This is not a good development and it adds fuel to the anti-Chinese fire.

Anyway, I'm pleased with my superb Schneider (fake or otherwise) pedestal paperweight. Maybe these weights are imported by a person named Schneider and are made on Murano.

Ultimately, these leads us to the big question. If the weight is a superbly crafted work of glass art, does it really matter who made it? Except, of course, when it comes time to sell? Probably. But right now, I'm glad I have it and I'm glad it's a superior glass obejct and I'm very glad it has lead to a thoughtprovoking and intelligent discussion.


Offline wrightoutlook

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just for reference - some information on the Schneiders
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2006, 04:04:21 PM »
Here is some online information about the Schneiders that I located. Now if only I can find a photo of the signature. I'm going to keep searching.

http://www.glassencyclopedia.com/Schneiderglass.html


Offline wrightoutlook

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oh, one more thing
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2006, 04:18:49 PM »
And yes, after much research, I did discover a website called schneiderglass.com, but according to all information, Charles and Ernest Schneider did NOT make paperweights. So, who is the talented faker and why is the signature being faked?


Offline Lustrousstone

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Pedestal paperweight. Faked Schneider signature
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2006, 05:33:12 PM »
But what about Charles Jnr and his brother Robert Henri? The glass encyclopedia just says they made art glass. Have you tried looking them up?


Offline Frank

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Pedestal paperweight. Faked Schneider signature
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2006, 06:27:26 PM »
Schneider.com is Robert Hadley's site. I had never for a moment thought you guys were discussing that Schneider... I had assumed this was about the Bohemian/German Oskar Schneider.

Salvador Ysart worked with the Schneider Brothers in Paris before WW1 when they were making lightbulbs.

Schneider sigs are well documented, is it sand blasted, etched or engraved. In anycase, rub over it with a pencil and it should photograph easily.
Frank A.
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Offline wrightoutlook

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see, this is what i love
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2006, 08:50:40 PM »
THIS is what I love about this website. I didn't know there was an OSKAR Schneider. Now, who is he and did he make paperweights?

There must be others with these pedestal weights. SOMEBODY is making them and they are in the marketplace. Even if rarely seen.

I love a good mystery. And it's one of the reasons I love collecting paperweights. Finding surprises and tracking down the maker. I think I'll call it the search for THE SCHNEIDER CODE.


Offline wrightoutlook

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WILL DO FRANK
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2006, 09:24:51 PM »
Frank. I have rubbed the VERY, VERY, VERY FAINT signature with a pencil and have taken some photos. I have also written on a 3 x 5 card a replica of the signature. I will post them shortly, as TINYPIC is down at the moment.


Offline wrightoutlook

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HERE ARE THE SIGNATURE IMAGES
« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2006, 01:47:23 AM »
As I posted at the beginning, the signature of the pedestal paperweight signed Schneider is very faintly etched or embossed and is raised only very, very, very slightly. It is as faint as a signature can be.

The first image is of my replica of the signature. The others are the best I could do considering the slightness of the signature. But if you look carefully, you will see the signature. As Frank suggested, I rubbed the signature with a pencil and photographed it. It was extremely difficult trying to get the light source right.

But, anyway, here is the signature of the mystery Blue Flower Pedestal Paperweight that is signed Schneider. Mark states it is Murano and I'm leaning that way until proven otherwise. It is not Chinese as I have stated and as Mark has stated. The telltale signs of Chinese glassmaking are not present. But if this quality piece is not Murano, then who could have done it? Is it German? Austrian? Czech? Why is someone making paperweights and signing them Schneider? How many were made? Where are the rest of them? Is Schneider an importer? Is Schneider the last name of a glassmaker in Murano?

Stare at the photographs very carefully and you will see the signature. Consider my hand-written impression of it and then relate that impression to the photos.

I love this hobby.

http://i4.tinypic.com/zwe0w6.jpg

http://i4.tinypic.com/zwepnr.jpg

http://i4.tinypic.com/zwepvs.jpg

http://i4.tinypic.com/zweq7b.jpg[/url]


Offline Della

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Pedestal paperweight. Faked Schneider signature
« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2006, 06:49:46 AM »
Hi wrightoutlook,

I managed to find this:

http://www.aspireauctions.com/auction34/details/5430.html

after googling many different variations. It is also signed Schneider.
Still not an ID, I know, but maybe the canes used will 'speak' to the experts.
Enjoying being in the Midlands.......some people are just amazing....
xx

 

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