Topic: Pedestal paperweight. Faked Schneider signature

[wrightoutlook]

Did you miss the earlier post by Alex, ArtofVenice? He is a Venetian and in the Murano Glass and paperweight trade. He also said that he knows personally most of the paperweight makers in his hometown of Venice.

No, I didn't miss it. I clearly wrote I wish - MORE - would read the board.  This implies that I read it and wished others posted from Murano.

[Frank]

Perhaps there actually is (or was) a Mr. Schneider working at one of the glassworks on Murano. A Gunther or a Gerhart - not Charles at all, who was in France at Galle or Daum.  Perhaps this Muranese Schneider was Italian-German or German-Italian.

Actually, the different Schneiders are well documented. But the ones for whom this signature matches ase the brothers Ernest and Charles. Charles was a designer for Daum and his brother Ernest was a salesman there prior to setting up their own glass-works - this was financed by Ernest's income from Daum. They were born in France to French parents, so definitely French. It is very unlikely that either of them worked in Murano.

Other Schneiders were based in Germany, Austria and Haida but are not related to the French family which had a fairly humble background.

[Frank]

Daum are quite good at signing things but apart from a few items are generally hard to sell for a reasonable price.

[wrightoutlook]

Frank, you mentioned an Oskar Schneider, but didn't pursue that. I'm going to stick to the subject at hand - the pursuit of the mystery of THE PEDESTAL PAPERWEIGHT SIGNED SCHNEIDER. THANK YOU.

The pedestal paperweight is the focus of this thread. The search is now on by seven others who have emailed me - and are finding this an enjoyable treasure hunt - to find out once and for all who is making these beautiful pedestal paperweights and signing them Schneider. Three are in the U.S.A, two in England, one in France, one in Italy, and one in Scotland (which I gather is still the U.K.), but after seeing Braveheart, who knows how they feel.

Alex from Italy says: "not Murano, not Chinese." Mark from California says Murano with an etched signature. Others say Chinese - but are they saying Mainland Chinese or Taiwanese Chinese? Haven't heard from the German favorites yet.

I lean towards Murano with a Schneider signature that indicates the name of an importer in the U.S.A. (Or if a German, Swiss, or Austrian; perhaps an exporter.)

Where are the other pedestal paperweights?

[Frank]

Oskar Schneider has no relevance here, very different mark and period.

[Leni]

I emailed Eric Schneider, to ask if he made this sort of pedestal paperweight.  Sadly, he has not replied as yet.  I also asked him if he would look in at this thread, if he has time.

[m1asmithw8s]

Hi,

Sorry to be posting here so late but I have stopped getting emails alerting me that this thread had been continuing and so I was not aware.

Jackie wrote:   Mark when you say that Murano glassmakers fake Shneider signatures on weights - how do you know that they are Murano?? Do they also put a Murano label next to the Shneider signature?? Why would Murano glassworks fake such a signature when they can sign it with their own glassmasters names? I think it is far more likely to be a Chinese copy. I agree with Simone that it looks Chinese - that was my first gut reaction. But it certainly does not look like a Murano weight to me.

OK,  I know they're Murano because I and other collectors have similar Murano weights without the faux Schneider signature.
Researching Scheider, we found that Schneider did not make paperweights with encased lampwork or torchwork designs.
I have a pedestal Murano tulip with the same faux Schneider signature as wrightoutlook's and she has received my pics.
I also have a Murano pedestal crocus like hers but that one does not have the faux Schneider signature. The fashion of the pedestal & foot as well as the design within, all say Murano, not Chinese.

As to Who put the faux Schneider signature on the Murano weights that have them well, we know that Murano artisans occasionally place faux 19th century date canes in their modern weights so yes, it could be the makers/glasshouse that did it. Or, it could be one or more retailers/dealers who did it in order to capitalize on the Schneider name for fun and profit.
This link, http://www.glassencyclopedia.com/Schneiderglass.html, placed here before, contains helpful information on Schneider.

Finally, many collectors know from experience that there are also some modern Murano weights extant that have a faint faux modern Baccarat acid etched signature as well. So these faux Schneider & Baccarat signatures on modern Murano weights, while not plentiful, become known to collectors with experience, over time.

I hope this is helpful  

[wrightoutlook]

Very helpful, Mark, as usual. But, who is the Schneider that is being copied. I'm still not clear on what Schneider is having his/her signature placed on these Murano paperweights.

[Frank]

Possible solution, this company was making abstract paperweights in the 1960's, I will find out how they are signed.

From the front page of their catalogue...

Cristallerie Schneider   1968
Lorris / Loiret Tel 127
Complement du catalogue general 1965
42 Rue de Paradis, Paris Tel: 62-64/5


From Glass Encyclopaedia

Cristallerie Schneider  was a new glassworks set up by Charles Schneider and his two sons, Charles and Robert, in 1949. Charles Schneider senior died in 1953. The Cristallerie Schneider operated until 1957, when the works was destroyed by an explosion, and during that time they produced some beautiful lines in lead crystal blown glass, often with random internal bubbling.

So it is possible that this is not connected to the original Schneider, but some sites attribute a 1980 to the end date of the original firm, most do give 1957.

One source, regarded as unreliable, states they moved to Lorris in 1962. This is repeated on Great-Glass site without reference.

A third French source, also considered unreliable, links them but in an uncertain way.

I will come back with more info from this source and maybe some pictures

[wrightoutlook]

As always, I am eagerly awaiting solutions to the Schneider pedestal mystery.

And I'm still trying to find information about Bayel of France, as regards my other recent post. This one is proving to be as tough to crack as the Schenider case. Thanks again.