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Author Topic: Stevens and Williams Arboresque question  (Read 1700 times)

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Offline flying free

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Re: Stevens and Williams Arboresque question
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2014, 08:08:47 PM »
thank you Fred!  :)

But that looks nothing like the description of Arboresque in The Crystal Years does it? 

'This was a treatment carried out in the early 1930's and used a glasshouse effect of trailed uneven coloured glass, mainly of jade green and rose, on to the surface of clear crystal articles.'

Dave's vase appears to be an internal transparent base (of yellow ? ) then the white patches then cased in yellow if I can see it correctly (not saying it is,  but  the technique reminds me of the description of a Harrach decor called Malachite which has white patches in between two layers of glass.)
m


Offline flying free

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Re: Stevens and Williams Arboresque question
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2014, 08:36:49 PM »
Thanks so much Fred :)
ok, having seen the pics in Manley I can only try and describe the bowl:

The bowl looks a bit like this rainbow bowl (see link) in shape only when you look at the tilted from the top photos.  But it doesn't seem to have the ribs on it and I can't see whether it is as deep as the rainbow or as squared off in profile of the base and sides of the bowl.  So, that's the best description I can give of the shape.
It has a firepolished rim that flares out like the rainbow bowl and has a large polished pontil mark.  The crackle on it looks peachy coloured and looks closest in type (I 'think' hard to tell precisely) to that on my yellow pot basically.   It is that peachy crackle over a clear base glass.
I would say it definitely 'possibly' could be English.  And 'possibly' could be S&W given the large polished pontil mark, firepolished rim and what of the shape I can see. 
But it doesn't match the description in The Crystal Years of 'Arboresque' in my opinion.  And it doesn't look anything like the one on The Vaseline glass link Fred gave, again in my opinion.

Adding this one for reference to try and convey the shape of the one in Manley - It's the second bowl down on the page -  please look at the tilted from top images only as those two are  really the closest match to what is in Manley.
http://www.20thcenturyglass.com/glass_encyclopedia/british_glass/stevenswilliams_glass/stevenswilliamsglass_home.html

So something is strange - either the Manley description is wrong, or the description in The Crystal Years is wrong as far as I can tell?
or am I wrong?

The Manley picture does not as far as I can tell, match The Crystal Years description of the technique.
If the Manley one is wrong and it's not Arboresque, what is it and who might have made it?  Is it a Stevens and Williams piece?
Or is the description in The Crystal Years wrong?

If the description in The Crystal Years is right, then I am still looking for an example of Arboresque:
 .. a glasshouse effect of trailed uneven coloured glass, mainly of jade green and rose, on to the surface of clear crystal articles

m


Offline KevinH

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Re: Stevens and Williams Arboresque question
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2014, 06:59:07 PM »
Surely, the bowl in the "20thcentury" site fits the description from The Crystal Years ... to my eyes, it is "jade and rose" and the rose colour seems to have been applied as a trailing over the jade base before working to final shape and size.

And yes, I think the shape of that jade & rose bowl is the same as in Manley #285 and that the description in Manley ("cracked surface") does not fit with a "trailed colour" technique.

I agree that a true identification (and image?) of Stevens & Williams "arboresque" [ * ] is needed in order to progress this.

[ * ] Edited to correct the spelling (see m's comment in the next post)
KevinH


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Re: Stevens and Williams Arboresque question
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2014, 07:10:00 PM »
 :o  did you hit the nail on the head Kev?  Is what we call Rainbow actually what is really Arboresque?

btw when you said Arabesque in your last sentence did you really mean to type Arboresque ?
edited to add - I 've seen your edit above and am off to hit the books and search button to see if this 'might' be Arboresque.

And if that bowl  (Rainbow) on 20th century is Arboresque, what is the one in Manley?

Did I understand your post correctly?  hope I'm not confusing things here  :-[
m


Offline KevinH

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Re: Stevens and Williams Arboresque question
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2014, 07:46:03 PM »
For confirmation on Manley's descriptions ...

Item #285 is stated as: "Another example of cracked surface ..."
Item #282 is stated as: "This, like 280, is another example of cracked surface decoration ..."
Item #280 is stated as: "To get this effect on a self-coloured article ..."

So, the item #280 piece is the start for the "cracked surface" decor. The description for that item is quite lengthy but includes ...
Quote
All the glass-blower had to do was mark, with some pressure, the outer casing with a sharp piece of metal before the article was blown to full size.
That description shows that Manley did not think it was the type of "crackled decor" as mentioned earlier in this thread. And, presumably, he thought that items #282 and #285 were formed in the same way, although his descriptions leave room for doubt. For example, he did not explicitly state that he thought #285 "cracked surface" was made in the same way, just that it was "another example of cracked surface".

And since I am now in "m" mode (trying to get to the facts beyond the suppositions) I will also add ...

Manley's item #282 actually had as its start to the description:
Quote
This, like 280, is another example of cracked surface decoration, but so elaborate that I hesitate to name the manufacturer. ...
In his earlier book for the American audience (Collectible Glass Book 4, British Glass 1968, second printing 1978) the same item was shown with a description starting: "An elaborate dish, even for Boulton & Mills ...". This clearly shows that Manley was not so rigid in his thoughts and attributions and some people might think. Somewhere between 1978 and 1981, new information caused him to alter his views on that item.

But back to the present ... what was the real "S & W arboresque" technique?
KevinH


Offline chopin-liszt

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Re: Stevens and Williams Arboresque question
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2014, 07:52:09 PM »
Just to add a couple of other names to the white crackle effect over a colour, there is WMF, Loetz and Monart.
Although the Monart normally has either a red undercolour or even more scarce, a pale-ish blue. (not baby or powder blue, darker than those.)
Cheers, Sue (M)

Three Wise Women would have asked for directions, arrived on time, delivered the baby, cleaned the stables and made a casserole...

And there WOULD have been peace on earth.


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Re: Stevens and Williams Arboresque question
« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2014, 07:58:44 PM »
Thank you Sue :)  good to add names to the list.


Kev, I agree, from what you've said it demonstrates that Manley was working with very little information sharing to hand, compared to that which we have today - I need to get the book definitely really though.  At least then I can see what is being referred to. 

.... I think we might have found 'Arboresque' I really do.  This is so exciting  (caveat ... disappointing if it doesn't turn out to be It though  ;D )
Just to mention in case it comes in useful in this debate - CH 20th century British Glass page 151 says 'The brand name "Royal Brierley Crystal"was adopted by Stevens and Williams in the 1920s who saw their glass as a royal product.'

Currently checking books as I type.

So people don't have to keep going back to check details, I'm re-adding this description of the decor 'Arboresque' found in the book
THE CRYSTAL YEARS 
A tribute to the Skills and Artistry of
STEVENS & WILLIAMS
ROYAL BRIERLEY CRYSTAL 
by R. S. Williams-Thomas
page 23

'Arboresque - This was a treatment carried out in the early 1930s and used a glasshouse effect of trailed uneven coloured glass, mainly of jade green and rose, on to the surface of clear crystal articles.'

There is no mention of a decor called 'Rainbow' in The Crystal Years that I can find.  (Open to correction)
And nothing I can find in 20th Century British Glass (Charles Hajdamach) (open to correction)

m



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Re: Stevens and Williams Arboresque question
« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2014, 10:07:17 PM »
Kev, do you or anyone else reading this thread, own British Glass Between The Wars - Dodsworth?
Bernard mentions (please note this quote from Bernard dates to 2007 so information may have moved on since then, but I am just using it to verify a reference) on another thread discussing Stevens and Williams rainbow vases, a reference here

http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,42704.msg237570.html#msg237570

in this part of the thread above
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,12744.msg85262.html#msg85262
Bernard says:
' 'Quote
... Popularly dated to the late 1930s, although I've seen no evidence to substantiate this. ...
'

Ronnie & Nigel — Correction, as I have seen evidence.   Dodsworth quotes a 1938 pattern number for the example illustrated in BGbtW.   As this is a top of the range luxury example with cut windows, it seems reasonable to deduce that Rainbow had been around for a while, but, as always, by how long? — six months, a decade — who can tell? '



This could be a piece to which Bernard refers - this particular one was on sale via 'Wooley and Wallis and references literature as above page 47 plate 335  (for reference in case the link disappears, this is a 'rainbow' decor vase taller than wide with vertical blue and green stripes and with large  circular lenses or windows cut around the top of the vase below the rim)
http://www.invaluable.com/catalog/viewLot.cfm?afRedir=true&lotRef=bd80d327b2&scp=c&ri=626

Wooley and Wallis describe it as
'A Stevens & Williams rainbow glass vase'  (note that the word rainbow is in lower case and not bold or Italics, so I don't know if it really denotes a 'decor') - unfortunately they do not say what was said in the BGbtW descriptor.

I have found a reference dated 1999 - In Miller's Antiques Price Guide 1999 page 494 there is a rainbow effect vase in what appears to be blue, amber and green (terrible photo for a colour reference) and the caption says ' A Stevens & Williams 'Rainbow' vase, c1930, 6in (15cm) high. 


However, having been through the Gorgeous Glass site (Broadfield House collection) I cannot see, nor can I find under a reference link, any pieces named as Arboresque or Rainbow or Rainbow Ware  that match what we are describing as rainbow from Stevens and Williams (open to correction)


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Re: Stevens and Williams Arboresque question
« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2014, 01:13:29 AM »
ah well .... short lived moment of excitement there possibly  ;)

Not in the index and couldn't find it on first look through but have now found the BGbtW reference in CH British Glass page 143 .
There are two vases pictured, the first difficult to describe but doesn't look anything like the second apart from shape - the second looks like the one in the Wooley and Wallis link.
Caption reads
'Plate 296 Vases by Stevens and Williams from 1938.  Left: the pattern for this vase appears in the Stevens and Williams pattern books at number 68325, dated 1 June 1938, with the annotated details "Rainbow/Light Blue & Ruby on Auburn cased inside Crystal outside'.  The cost of making and cutting the vase was 45s. (2.25p).  Right: the vase appears in the pattern books at number 68037, dated 18 March 1938, with the annotation 'Light Blue & Green Rainbow Cased Inside' and '8 round' referring to the number of circular hollows around the shoulder.  The cost of making the vase was 28s. (1.40p).  Heights left to right: 9 3/4in. (24.7cm), 9 3/4in. (24.7cm).'

 It's  strange that this Rainbow range is not mentioned in The Crystal Years  but I have noticed there are two more ranges referenced in CH 20th Century British Glass that are also not in The Crystal Years.


So possibly still looking for an image example of Arboresque :)  However...
One last trawl of images on Gorgeous Glass and a different search request threw up this
http://gorgeousglass.org.uk/collections/getrecord/DMUSE_BH1019/
An image of a 'Rainbow' glass vase as we know it ... but not described as such

Summary: Vase decorated with pink and green spiral bands
Description: Vase, clear glass applied with green and pink spiral bands, bucket shape with vertical rib moulding, clear cased.
  Production date given as c.1947.  No mention of it being called Rainbow.

I haven't forgotten about the crackle bowl in Manley - a question of whodunnit for another thread perhaps?

m


Offline flying free

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Re: Stevens and Williams Arboresque question
« Reply #19 on: February 09, 2014, 11:12:08 AM »
I've just done a double check of known ranges for Stevens and Williams in the Broadfield House Museum collection on Gorgeous Glass, to see how they are listed.

Examples such as Latticino, Osiris, Caerleon, Silveria, Abbey Glass, Satin Air Trap, Tapestry Glass, Moresque Air Trap, Moss Agate, Fibrilose Design are all given their range name under ' Object Name' e.g 'Object Name: Fibrilose Design'

However the rainbow type decor vase is just named as 'Object Name: Stevens and Williams Vase'
That vase  is also listed as 'Production Period: Post War (1945-1959)'
The description as per post above.
http://gorgeousglass.org.uk/collections/getrecord/DMUSE_BH1019/

I have read all the threads on this board that pertain to this decor and also Nigel's site where some information is given and the range is referred to as Rainbow Ware

The piece I referred to in the GG collection is dated c.1947. The one in Charles Hajdamach's 20th C BG is dated to 1938. They are two different vases, but appear to me (open to correction) to be part of the same 'Decor' range.
According to The Crystal Years, Arboresque was a treatment carried out in the early 1930s.

We need some clarification now as to whether 'Rainbow' was a nominated range name in the pattern books.  This is not clear from CH caption reference on page 143 20th CBG, because most of the words in the pattern description for each of the two vases start with capital letters. And even the word 'inside' is spelt with a capital on the descriptor of the second vase but not with a capital on the first vase iyswim?  So there is no way of knowing or even inferring from the way the descriptor is written, whether the word denotes a specific 'Decor Range'.

Ever hopeful this could still be Arboresque :) 
m

 

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