Looking for Glass on ebay? Angela's Designer Searches can help! Click here!

Author Topic: Jules Barbe for Stuart & Sons or are they Webb? Drop head Dab trail -peacock eye  (Read 799 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline flying free

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 7005
    • UK
The gilding on my vases is superb and matches the gilding on the vase he gave to his daughter.  The gilding on the probable Stuart vase in the Bristol museum is also superb, and I have no reason so far, to think he didn't gild them himself.

Reading the pages 322-327 in Charles Hadamach's British Glass 1800-1914 there is no evidence to suggest M. Barbe did not do the gilding and enamelling himself.  On the contrary, there is more evidence to support that he did, within those pages.
Prior to 1901 he was working for Thomas Webb with his son, and I believe iirc there was a decorating department. 
After that he set up independently and I have not read anything to suggest he had people working with him.  Indeed the an article within those pages suggests that gilding and enamelling had fallen out of favour. 

And a brief exerpt from
from that article written in 1905 printed in the book-
'It is true that gilding and painting was well known in this country when M. Jules Barbe settled down (my words - he arrived in 1879), but for reasons which it is difficult to find out this kind of decorative art was gradually dropped by those manufacturers in whose works it was done, and M. J. Barbe is now the only representative of it in this district, and of this particular line in the country'.
It actually makes a point within the article of saying that he sketched all the designs himself. 

I can't imagine that all he did was sketch the designs and mix the paste.

He also gave the vase to his daughter.  Of course I suppose it could have been by anyone, but I think the fact he gave it to her implies it was his work.   
m

edited to add:

On my vase, the vase at the Bristol blue glass ite and Adam P's vase, and the vase on page 53 in the book, the vase given to his daughter, the roses and leaves but particularly the roses are all gilded in as specific way, the same way. 
A link to Adam P's vase that I also believe is by Barbe.  Adam is hoping to add more pics as the only one visible is the pic of the foot now.
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,5758.msg48891.html#msg48891
m


Offline Baked_Beans

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 679
  • Gender: Male
That's amazing ! Your roses and Adam's rose are surely by the same hand  :D

I won't post any more links because it's just going to confuse things , but here is one . possibly Stuart , different flower, but probably by Barbe .......

http://www.sellingantiques.co.uk/123756/c1880-gilded-posy-vase-possibly-stuart-sons/

Over & Out ....Mike  ;)
Mike


Offline flying free

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 7005
    • UK
Thanks Mike :)  I had seen that one as well.  I think it's a 'possible' contender but the photograph is not clear nor close enough and I have some reservations about it.  The leaves and flowers look like they have been outlined and then gilded.  It doesn't look, from the photographs, to be by the same hand.  It's hard to explain why, but it doesn't, however perhaps with clear closer photographs it might and it could be that the 'outline' my eyes are perceiving is in fact a shadow from the gilding.

With regard my vase, Adam P's and the vase on the Bristol Blue Glass site id'd as Stuart that you linked to, the quality of the gilding and the way they have been gilded is absolutely top quality (reservation on Adam's until I get better pictures).

I'm posting a link to show some comparisons:
a) The first is a link to a vase Keith posted some time ago that I've also been looking to help id.  This has flat and raised gilding.  The second and third  shots should show close ups.  You can see on the first shot the rose is completely differently done to the way mine is as are the leaves. And it is clear to me, from a different hand to my vases.
b) The second I have added here - it's a beautiful Mont Joye rose bowl, enormous, and on looking at it the gilding is superb, the sponge gilding around the rim is all intact still 100 yrs later so it's in good shape and it's a really beautiful piece. It also has flat and raised gilding.  But again, looking at close up you can see big differences.
c) The last is a very close close-up of one of my pair of vases.

a) http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,29690.msg260114.html#msg260114
b) -top pic showing how good Mont Joye looks on display
    -second pic down is a close up of the actual gilding on the Mont Joye
c) -close up of one of my pair of Stuart Barbe vases


Offline Baked_Beans

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 679
  • Gender: Male
Thanks for the lovely examples m   :) I see what you mean !

It's such a shame that there aren't a full set of pattern books for Webb and Stuart & Sons from 1900 to 1914 available online . :) 
Mike


Offline flying free

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 7005
    • UK
'Thomas Webb and Sons in Stourbridge, who ranked alongside Stevens and Williams as one of the best quality factories, made some of the finest Edwardian examples, which still survive in the company's old collection now held by Broadfield House Glass Museum' - Source CH 20th Century British Glass page 47.
So where might the donated vase be?   I think I must have searched the entire collection now and haven't found it  ???
m


Offline flying free

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 7005
    • UK
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,46323.msg277880.html#msg277880

the vase I drew in my sketch has trailing that  looks like the one in the far right back of Keith's second picture in link above (you need to enlarge the photo to see it) but it has a high 'waist', rather than a neck, so is a different shape.
The trailing is also the same as the one in the front of the picture although that is a footed vase.
The trails are the same but it's all clear on clear, a design Stuart used.




Offline Baked_Beans

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 679
  • Gender: Male
There is a similar vase to your vases here described as Thomas Webb , it's lot 312 and you have to scroll down well over halfway , past the Powell straw opal &  tumblers .......

 http://fieldingsauctioneers.co.uk/auctions/print/56

It's a variation on your vase , not sure if the dimensions are the same but the auctioneers are based in Stourbridge  so they should easily be able to research this !

http://fieldingsauctioneers.co.uk/


Ta Mike
Mike


Offline flying free

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 7005
    • UK
Thank you Mike, an excellent find - auction number 312 in the link you gave.

It appears to be a similar shape to this one
http://www.mikeweedonantiques.com/newsite/stock/glass/english/stuart/stuart-v-003.htm
which is listed on Mike Weedon's site as Stuart.

The Fieldings bowl has dab trails (but not drop head) around the vase and raised gilding (as per their description) on it.  It has an upturned crimped rim which appears to be a 10 way crimp similar to rims identified as Stuart.
It is completely clear like mine. 
The photograph is minute but the gilding appears to have a flower on it that is not a rose like mine but may be a similar flower to that on the vase posted here earlier in this thread:

http://www.sellingantiques.co.uk/123756/c1880-gilded-posy-vase-possibly-stuart-sons/

The dab head trails appears to have been applied in a similar way to mine and seem to have that line between the trail and the dab - photo very small so open to correction.

Mike, they would have to check the records I guess to check the maker since there doesn't seem to be a book with these in it?  Perhaps a book with these in is out there somewhere?
They haven't quoted a pattern number.  I'm not convinced it's Webb (she says in a small voice).

edited to add, I've just posted a link to it on another thread pertaining to the rim shape and Christine says
'Looks like a Stuart shape to me'
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,55709.msg316199.html#msg316199

m


Offline flying free

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 7005
    • UK
I've just been checking out some more Stuart vases that I wondered have been incorrectly listed as Harrach or Steigerwald/Schliersee and was looking at the Style and Design website. http://www.stylendesign.co.uk/guidepages/references.html
Interestingly they give a list of reference sources for their identifications.
They say
'This section contains a less than exhaustive list of reference sources used. Sometimes they are comprehensive texts, occasionally they are simple collectors guides to a subject area.'

Some of those are listed below, and it was from Vol4 that Nigel confirmed some patterns for me of my 'drop head dab tail' vase on this thread. I guess I need an unavailable copy of these  ;D 

'95. Victorian Decorative Glass, British Designs 1850-1914 Volume Two, The Pattern Books of Stuart & Sons Limited and Philip Pargeter, Part One, Mervyn Gulliver, An M.G.ANTIQUES Publication for Collectors

96. Victorian Decorative Glass, British Designs 1850-1914 Volume Four, The Pattern Books of Stuart & Sons Limited and Philip Pargeter, Part Three, Mervyn Gulliver, An M.G.ANTIQUES Publication for Collectors

97. Victorian Decorative Glass, British Designs 1850-1914 Volume Three, The Pattern Books of Stuart & Sons Limited and Philip Pargeter, Part Two, Mervyn Gulliver, An M.G.ANTIQUES Publication for Collectors'


Offline Baked_Beans

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 679
  • Gender: Male
Thanks m , I knew it would make you happy  :) Total flook I found it  ;)

I'm sure Fieldings wouldn't want to get it wrong... being a local piece of glass... and they havn't said 'possibly' in their description !

It's a real shame the photo isn't larger ! It's the way the foot has been applied at the base on the short stem, which looks remarkably similar to yours  .
Mike

 

This Website is provided by Angela Bowey, PO Box 113, Paihia 0247, New Zealand