Topic: Jules Barbe for Stuart & Sons or are they Webb? Drop head Dab trail -peacock eye

[flying free]

Mod: This post edited 23 Feb 2014 by request of poster following later details on ID.
"Barbe vase given to daughter has now been confirmed as being Stuart"

Text of original post has been retained for contextual purposes.


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original text

No, they haven't Mike.  But ... I'm still not convinced.
It doesn't explain why I have a pattern match for my vase to a Stuart catalogue.  And there's something about all the vases linked on this thread now that I think are Stuart.  But I could be wrong    I will do my best to check these when I'm up at Broadfield House.  I hope they have a copy of the pattern books there, or a copy of Gulliver's volume 4.

I will edit this post in a minute and pull together links to all the pieces with this gilding that are up for question, so they can be easily compared by readers of the thread without having to trawl through the thread.

My vase – link to photos – I believe Stuart and Jules Barbe gilding as pattern match to Stuart pattern in Harrods catalogue 1909 no CH18080 matched to a Stuart pattern number in the book of 18080 and gilding matched to that on Barbe vase given to his daughter (page 53 CH 20thcBritishGlass)
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,55750.msg316021.html#msg316021

AdamP’s vase on another thread, same gilding as mine.Appears to be Stuart ref peacock eye and trails but more pics needed and shape match needed
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,5758.msg48891.html#msg48891

Vase in Bristol Glass Museum, appears to have same gilding as mine, peacock eye, att.Stuart. Shape match needed
http://www.museum.bristolblueglass.com/footed-trumpet-vase-ca-1905/#.UwJqAdJdVJ1


V&A bowl which appears to have dab tails applied in the same way as my vase – id queried as Stuart
http://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O6709/dewdrop-finger-bowl-stuart-sons-ltd/

My sketch of vase page 53 CH 20thC British Glass vase given by Barbe to his daughter same gilding as mine -hence my id for my vase.  But in book as Thomas Webb.  I'm querying whether this is in fact a Stuart vase?
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=55750.0;attach=148637;image

Keith’s pic Stuart vases (second pic down-needs to be enlarged to see detail) – far right back vase same trailing (but in green) as the Jules Barbe vase given to his daughter (trailing clear on clear vase)
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,46323.msg277880.html#msg277880


Vase att.possibly Stuart, gilded but not same dec as mine (poss not Barbe, clearer pics need to id)
http://www.sellingantiques.co.uk/123756/c1880-gilded-posy-vase-possibly-stuart-sons/


Vase 312 on this Fieldings Sale March 2013 – id’d as Webb by Fieldings, possibly Stuart? poor photo so gilding not clear, shape appears to be Stuart, flower appears to be similar to that on sellingantiques vase
http://fieldingsauctioneers.co.uk/auctions/print/56

So far then, there are five vases that I believe are by Jules Barbe for Stuart:  The one Jules Barbe gave to his daughter,  my pair, Adamp p's and the vase on the Bristol Glass Museum site.

Summary:
-Only a Stuart pattern match to my vase shape at the moment. 

-I'm hoping Adam P will add more pictures but from the base pic of his vase available, the peacock eyes appear to be Stuart and the trailing up and around the rim he describes matches Stuart trailed vases. (no shape match as full picture of vase not available)

-The trailing on the Barbe vase in the book is matched to Stuart trailing, but cannot find a shape match so far (need to check pattern books)

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[Baked_Beans]

I've downloaded the photo of lot 312 on my computer and put it side-by-side next to a download of Mike Weedon's Stuart vase and I can't tell any difference between the two in the general shape ! Although they are taken from different angles.  Mike's might have an 8 way 'crimp' rather than a 10 way as with lot 312 but it's difficult to say for sure . 

Oh my gosh , how difficult ! I think I'm in the Stuart camp (but I know nothing !) 

[flying free]

yes I agree, the angle changes the perception but I believe they are the same bowl.
The rim I believe is the same cup and crimp as on the Stuart vase  on page 159 Gulliver's Victorian Decorative Glass bottom photograph.
I believe the Fielding's vase is a Stuart vase with gilding the same or similar gilding pattern to that on the SellingAntiques site.
I don't think it's the same gilding as my vase.

m

[Baked_Beans]

I guess all or some of the above examples might well be from the period when Barbe was working free-lance,... in British Glass 1800-1914 Charles Hajdamach says that during this period " A great deal of work was executed for Stuart & Sons whose pattern books are full of Barbe's designs, with his own pattern numbers alongside those of the company " page 327.   

[flying free]

Some information on Jules Barbe and his work from The Crystal Years (R.S. Williams-Thomas) (a book about Stevens and Williams), to add to the question about whether others executed his work once he went freelance.  I interpret from this as well, that his work was his own. 
 on Page 48
'It was during this time that Jules Barbe severed his exclusive relationship with Messrs. Thomas Webb and became freelance and able to work for Stevens and Williams, and it was between 1900 and 1903 that his magnificent designs were executed in his own studio.  The majority of his work was in flat and raised gold and all are carefully recorded with special reference numbers.  His technique of raised gold decoration involved the use of a thick enamel paste carefully applied ... steel and bloodstone.'

And here if you scroll down the page, there is further information on him.  Including 'During World War I, he reportedly had to enamel mustard pots for a living. This was at the end of his career, when his earlier accomplishments apparently sank into oblivion.'
http://www.cmog.org/artwork/enameled-and-gilded-vase?search=collection%3A000d6b04130cf6576740ac47de2c5166&page=3

To end on a high note:
Charles Hajdamach says in British Glass 1800-1914 page  327
'... When his name is mentioned in Stourbridge it is in the same company as Fritsche, Woodall and Northwood.'

m

[flying free]

Ah, I have something else very interesting to add to my above post regarding Jules Barbe doing his own work.
As you read on down the page 49 in The Crystal Years,  the author describes their (Stevens and Williams') 'gilding shop' as part of a description of the glasshouse rebuilt in 1870.
He says
'The gilding shop was in one corner of the square and was a little, dark, one-storey shed, with it's muffle sited in an off-shoot passage leading to the blacksmith's shop next door.  There was scant room for three artists, all of whom needed to face the pale light from the reeded window.  The muffle itself was truly primitive and was built by the works "brickie".  It consisted of... .  Stacking of the glass to be fired was a skilled and tricky operation, particularly when thin stemware was involved.'

If that's Stevens and Williams gilding shop, then I can only imagine Jules Barbe's 'atelier' as it was described in the contemporary article of the day, was just big enough for him

m

[flying free]

Bingo -

This vase below was sold by Fieldings as Stuart (although I admit we've just been discussing a possibly incorrect attribution by Fieldings - however this shape really does match known Stuart shapes). 
It has the trailing and similar bottom half to the vase given by Barbe to his daughter, but has a fluted rim rather than straight and not diabolo shape.  Terrible photograph so  impossible to be very sure about the rose although it looks right (but reserve judgement because of photo) , but the design is all the same as the design on the vase given by Jules Barbe to his daughter featured in Charles Hajdamach's 20th CBG page 53.

I really do suspect the vase she was given was Stuart. 

http://fieldingsauctions.co.uk/lot/4658

m

[Baked_Beans]

Well done ! 

I've been trying to track down were Stuart's pattern books are ' full of Barbe's designs , with his own pattern numbers alongside those of the company' Hajdamach see above. They aren't in the archives department in Dudley.

http://www.dudley.gov.uk/resident/libraries-archives/local-history--heritage/archive-and-local-history/

Waterford Wedgwood don't have them either .

 Anyone know where they went to after (or even before) Stuart Crystal closed down ?

[flying free]

That's interesting. The advice I was given was that I should call Waterford Wedgwood   

I am going to check if I can, that the vase given by Barbe to his daughter is a Stuart piece.  I think Broadfield House have the Gulliver's volumes.
However I am confident my piece is a Barbe piece since it matches the decoration in the CH book on page 53 of the group of Barbe vases, and is of his high quality. 
I am also confident it's a Stuart vase since I believe I have a known match to it of pattern number 18080
m

[Baked_Beans]

The nice lady I spoke to on the phone at Waterford Wedgwood's head office said that they don't hold any archives and just have the brand name. She said there is still glass made in Ireland but it's unlikely there are any archive's held there, but she did give me a number.... which I didn't call.... (00)35351317000 . They might , I guess , know what happened to the Stuart pattern books ?!

You really do seem to me to be spot-on with all your investigations, ... even with my untrained eye !