With reference my posts above:'I think it is possible the Manley vase item 243 could actually be a Stuart vase. It is also possible this is another Barbe gilded pattern.
Both points require more investigation:
- Firstly to match the vase size and shape precisely to a Stuart pattern number.
- Secondly to try and match the gilding on the Manley item 243 to gilding on the two linked vases (or any others that may surface).'
A member of the board has contacted me directly to tell me that this vase shape, Item 243 in Manley, has been seen by them in a golden amber colour c. 1930, acid marked "Stuart ENGLAND".
Which begs the question - how robust is Manley's assertion?
'This is one of a series of soda-lime bowls and vases produced in 1900 with "Cairngoram drops with green centres on flint". This is from Thomas Webb's records, and it's their spelling.'
I haven't seen the Webb pattern books, so I suppose it is possible they produced exactly the same item.
However, should it turn out that Thomas Webb did not and this vase is definitely and only a Stuart pattern, there are now a number of queries over Manley's comment:
- Firstly, he actually asserts the the bowl was produced in 1900 rather than saying 'produced from' or 'c.1900', which given the coloured centre of the eye does not appear to be true (see CH British Glass - coloured centres to Webb's 'eyes' added in 1907)
- Secondly, he calls the eyes 'Cairngoram drops' and asserts this was the exact spelling from Thomas Webb records. Therefore, if he had actually seen the Thomas Webb records to see this recorded, and if this vase is not Thomas Webb but Stuart, then Thomas Webb's 'Cairngoram drops' must apply to some other decor.
I do not know how the' 'Cairngoram' drops' comment from Manley fit in with the Stuart peacock eye trail style vases that are often called 'Cairngorm'. I've not seen the pattern books of either.
All I can add for now is:
- in CH British Glass 1800-1914 the Thomas Webb peacock eye trail style vases (only 4 sketches shown which may be a very small portion of their total production) shown on page 436 are indicated as '"teardrops", 'inverted "teardrops"' , '"Cats Eyes" teardrops' and 'coloured teardrops'.
- In CH 20th Century British Glass Charles Hajdamach refers to this style on page 37.
He says 'Thomas Webb and Sons introduced their version of twisted 'teardrops' in 1901, re-worked the idea into inverted 'teardrops' in 1902 and in 1903 re-christened the peacock trail as 'Cat's Eyes' teardrops. In 1907 Webb's introduced coloured centres into the eye of their peacock trails to keep up with their competitors.'
Looking at his sketches in CH British Glass 1800-1914 it is my observation that the shape of the 'teardrops' does not match the shape of the peacock eye style eye on this bowl in Manley.
p.s. for other discussions on the board regarding Manley's 'Cairngoram drops' phrase seehttp://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,37964.msg315873.html#msg315873http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,5358.msg44632.html#msg44632http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,1901.msg48443.html#msg48443