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Author Topic: Henry Greener RD 284695, 27 August 1874 – P9, salver/comport & celery vase.  (Read 1278 times)

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Offline agincourt17

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A photo of two matching pieces by Henry Greener, Sunderland, RD 284695 (both bearing the registry date lozenge for 27 August 1874 – parcel 9. The salver or comport has a top 11 inches in diameter. The matching celery vase has a body with two side handles.

(Permission for the re-use of these images on the GMB granted by Rob Young).

Not illustrated in Thompson, although she describes the design as being for a ‘plate’, so there were presumably several different shapes from this design. Does anyone have any photos of the plate or other matching pieces to show, please? 

Photo will be added to the GMB RD Database gallery shortly.

Fred.

Offline agincourt17

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I have just noticed the similarity with a contemporary Sowerby design, RD 284431, registered on 17 August 1874 – parcel 5. The shallow dish is approximately 10 inches diameter and the registration details indicate that it would have originally had a matching cover.

There is a marked similarity in the shape of the stippled panels and scalloped border of the Sowerby dish compared to the top of the Henry Greener salver / comport.

Only 10 days separate the two design registrations! Design plagiarism / ‘industrial espionage’ must have been absolutely rife, yet there seem to have been very few legal cases citing breach of design copyright.

Fred.

Offline Dubarry

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Greetings from Downunder, Australia!

I was sifting through the Sowerby designs and noticed the plate you have with the lozenge for 17th August 1874.  I have had this plate for many years and from my reading of the lozenge I think it is Henry Greener and not Sowerby. Lozenges are sometimes very difficult to decipher and I think the date on the lozenge on my plate is for 27th which puts it into the Greener camp. There may have been an error in the previous Sowerby reading. (Page 18, Sowerby).  I have included some photographs of my lozenge and only the parcel number is hard to read. This may put an end to the thoughts of plagiarism back in the 1800's!! 

Many thanks,
Barry

Offline agincourt17

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Thank you, Barry - I think that you are correct.

I've checked my other reference photos for Henry Greener RD 284695 of 27 August 1874 - Parcel 9. There is another 12 inch dish in the same design, and I do have the matching design representation drawings (showing a plate in this case) from Paul Stirling & TNA.

I've also checked the Sowerby design representation for their RD 284431 of 17 August 1874 - Parcel 5 (which shows a lidded butter dish with stippled panels and a scalloped border) and, although there are some similarities the Henry Greener's RD 284695, I don't have photos of another actual Sowerby item in the pattern to confirm it.

There is a Sowerby lidded butter shown on the Thistlewood Sowerby CD-ROM Vol 1 (middle of the bottom row on page 4 of Sowerby pattern book XI, 1885) that corresponds fairly closely to the Sowerby RD 284431 design representation, but unfortunately the Sowerby pattern is cropped from the illustration.

I will amend the entries on the GMB RD database and the Glass Gallery Sowerby Album accordingly, and also include a link to this GMB topic for this additional information.

Fred.

Offline Paul S.

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Well spotted Barry  -  good to know we have cleared up some potential confusion - which is something very easily done in this murky world of sometimes unreliable pictures and lozenges.

Fred  -  you obviously have the Kew pix for Greener 284695 - do you need TNA picture for Sowerby 284431, or have I already posted it?

Offline Dubarry

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Hi Fred and Paul, thanks for your responses.  Fred, If you want any reference photographs of the dish I am happy to send them to you. The GMB is a wonderful tool for glassaholics!

Yes Paul,  lozenges are a tricky thing if poorly moulded.  I have yet to see a perfect one. This applies to some registered numbers too!

Enjoy the rest of your weekend gentlemen!

Kind regards
Barry

Offline agincourt17

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Paul - you have already sent me design representations for the Henry Greener RD 284695 and the Sowerby RD 284431 by personal  email, but neither were watermarked, so I haven't posted them on the GMB or added them to the GMB RD database.

I would be most grateful if you could post watermarked examples of both these design representations so that they are permanently referenced against this GMB thread and able to be added to the GMB RD database with due credit.

Barry - thank you for your offer of reference photos for the Henry Greener RD 284695 dish. I already have some on the GMB RD database, but I would be grateful for your permission to add your photos already posted on this thread to the stock on the GMB RD database. Due credit  will be given, of course.

Fred.

Offline Dubarry

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Hi Fred, thanks for your email. Yes, please do go ahead and use the photographs if they are of use.

Kind regards
barry

Offline Paul S.

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here are The National Archive images from Kew  -  must apologise that I'm unable to improve on the quality of the Sowerby picture  -  the paper used would not have been acid free, and over time paper of this low quality tends to turn some shade of brown  -  you see this effect even on a lot of modern cheap fiction - paperbacks are a good example, and they turn brownish at the edges which is where the paper is more likely to have had some exposure to light...................    either that or they used brown paper to start with ;)                Plus it looks like that famous purple pencil has been used again.
The Greener drawing looks vastly better in clarity.

Offline agincourt17

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Thank you, Paul - I appreciate your help.

Fred.

 

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