Topic: Pair cut glass decanters RD 249104 – John Shaw, Sheffield, 7 February 1894.

[agincourt17]

A pair of square-section cut glass decanters, the base of each bearing the engraved design registration number 249104, registered by John Shaw, Latimer Glass Works, Sheffield, on 7 February 1894.

(Permission for the re-use of these images on the GMB granted by 1973elvis).

Each decanter stands 7 inches tall without the stopper, and just under 9 inches tall with the stopper. One of the stoppers is engraved ‘1’ and the other ‘2’, but the decanter bodies are not engraved to match.

This is the first time that I have come across John Shaw, Sheffield as a design registrant. Thompson gives the Latimer Glass Works address, whereas Slack just cites ‘Sheffield’.  Thomspon cites Shaw as ‘Cut Glass Manufacturer’.

I think this is also the first time that I have come across ANY Sheffield glass design registrant but, try as I might, I have been unable to find any more information about John Shaw or the Latimer Glass works.

It may not be directly relevant, but there was a Latimer Street in the north-west of Sheffield (now disappeared but apparently situated between Bramwell Street and Weston Street, both of which do still exist, though much redeveloped).

The only Sheffield glass works that I have been able to find information about that may have been contemporary with John Shaw’s Latimer Glass works is that of the Don Valley Glass works on Darnall Road in association with the former Sanderson's Darnall Steelworks. The site is scheduled under the Ancient Monuments and Archaeological Areas Act 1979 as amended as it appears to the Secretary of State to be of national importance. The listing at
http://list.english-heritage.org.uk/resultsingle.aspx?uid=1021424
includes the following information:
“The association of the glassworks with the establishment of Darnall steelworks provides additional interest with the potential for surviving evidence of the cross fertilisation of technology between glass and steel production in the mid 19th century. Taken as a whole the monument represents a uniquely well preserved, nationally important complex tracing the evolution of the site from an early 19th century glassworks to a 20th century steelmaking centre….  The monument includes standing, earthwork and associated buried remains of a steelworks established in the late 1830s, as well as the buried remains of a late eighteenth century glassworks. The site retains its original boundaries to the north (Darnall Road), east (Wilfrid Road) and south, but has been partly truncated to the west in the 20th century by later steel works and other redevelopment. HISTORY Originally agricultural land in the 18th century, the Don Glassworks is possibly the glassworks that was advertised for rent in the 1793 Sheffield Register. It first appears, but is not named, on a survey of 1795 which matches a more detailed plan of 1819. This 1819 plan labels the glassworks and shows other details such as a short terrace of houses within the work's plot to the east of the glass cone. In 1835 the glassworks was leased by Sanderson Brothers, one of Sheffield's largest steel producers, who then established Darnall Steelworks on adjacent land to the south. It is thought that Sanderson Brothers leased the glassworks to aid their steel business, learning from glass manufacturing technology, possibly adapting the glass cone into a cementation furnace. However the glassworks, still shown by the 1853 Ordnance Survey map, reverted to glass manufacture by 1859 under the management of Melling, Carr and Co., and ceased production, with the demolition of the glass cone, by 1905.”
According to
http://youle.info/history-blog/sheffield-historical/books-on-line/the-story-of-old-attercliffe-g-r-vine-pt-3/
[In 1861] Thomas Edward Mycock, a most enterprising business man… had succeeded Melling, Carr and Company at the Don Glass Works,

Has anyone come across references to John Shaw’s Latimer Glass Works or other Sheffield Glass works, please? I suppose it is possible that the Latimer Glass Works could have been involved in cutting glass pieces that were actually made elsewhere.

Does anyone have pieces of attributed Sheffield-made glass to show, please?

Fred.

[Paul S.]

Sterling work Fred - very interesting.

Matching Nos. on bodies can be elusive, sometimes.          Have you tried underneath the base, inside the neck.             Are the stoppers a very good fit  -  so many have been lost over the years and replaced  -  you should be able to detect a replacement  ...  slightly wobbly etc.            Do they look to be a match.
It's unusual to have one part with a No. and the other without, unless there's been a replacement.

Also unusual to see on a decanter design from the 1890's, what is a typical late Georgian ornate and cut rim design - a decorative feature that was common on spirit squares from the 1810 - 1820's - which presumably is what these bottles are copying.
I'd also suggest that this pair may possibly be exiles from a 'tantalus' - bearing in mind the absence of cut decoration on the lower portion of the body, where this part of the glass would have been unseen.

I'll check this Rd. No. when I go to Kew, if you wish.

[agincourt17]

Thank you, Paul. The details from TNA would be very useful.

I did quiz the owner of the decanters about the stoppers and any matching numbers on each body, and he tells me that there were no obvious body numbers to match, but that the stoppers seemed to be a ‘reasonable fit’ (though I usually assume that  stoppers are very likely to be replacements unless there is good evidence otherwise).

The thought that the decanters might be from a tantalus had crossed my mind, but the owner had simply inherited them as they were.

Nice though to have come across a pair of decanters that would not normally have even raised an eyebrow had they been unmarked, and such a precise dating from an unusual registrant working in an area not usually associated with cut glass manufacturer really aroused my interest.

Fred.

[Paul S.]

good job you already have the name of this Registrant, as this was another where I obviously picked up the wrong Register!   -   it does seem unusual for an item to be in Thompson when as you can see it was registered as CLASS 4.

The image in the Representations book is disappointing  -  it would seem that Shaw were concerned only with the four-way pouring lip, since nothing else is indicated on the drawing.

hope of some interest.

[Paul S.]

meant to add that these Kew pix offer no further help re identifying the design of the original stopper.

[agincourt17]

Many thanks, Paul, as always.

Still very interesting as a Sheffield-based registrant.

Fred.

[hazy71]

hi guys i  have a tantalus and decanters is this worth much the decanters are all marked  RD 249104 and the tops are 2,3,4 in good condition any help would be great

[kamdetail]

I have a very small decanter/cruet/bottle (4 1/2" tall not including stopper and 1 3/4" in diameter) that bears the registry No. 249104. It has the ORIGINAL cut faceted stopper as well and has the 4-Way pour lip. The bottom of the main vessel is marked with the registry no, and includes a number 4 well apart from the registry no. The stopper fits very precisely and is also marked with the number 4. No doubt original. It is a multi faceted stopper. I will post photos of this piece shortly.