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Author Topic: Whitefriars Georgian glass copy pattern 2481?  (Read 152 times)

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Offline brucebanner

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Whitefriars Georgian glass copy pattern 2481?
« on: May 21, 2014, 07:17:02 PM »
I came across two glasses at the weekend, they both differ slightly in shape and have the same colour and shape and feel of old Georgian glasses with rough pontils, I kept thinking of what Paul and others have kindly taught me about old glass and i knew they were not Georgian maybe Victorian, then whilst researching another vase today on my dinner break i came across the 1931 and 1938 Whitefriars catalogues and blurred black and white pictures of pattern 2481, i'm just wondering if these are the half pint glasses in that pattern? Has anyone seen anything similar ?

There 5 1/8th inches in height, 3 1/2 inches across the rim and 2 3/4 inches across the base.

There is no age wear to the bases on both.
Chris Parry


Offline brucebanner

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Re: Whitefriars Georgian glass copy pattern 2481?
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2014, 07:19:32 PM »
A picture of both of them against what i think is a Georgian moulded glass.
Chris Parry


Offline bat20

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Re: Whitefriars Georgian glass copy pattern 2481?
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2014, 08:04:03 PM »
I'm not sure Chris but i'd expect a polished pontil with WF glass,is there much wear to the bases of your glass,maybe late Georgian regency?,don't quote me on that though ::)


Offline brucebanner

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Re: Whitefriars Georgian glass copy pattern 2481?
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2014, 05:14:21 AM »
No the bases on both have no wear they look new, only on the outside of the glasses is there any wear, scratch marks similar to what i find on crystal which i think are caused by diamond rings amongst other things rubbing against the glass. They have the colour and nice ring of old glass though.
Chris Parry


Offline bat20

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Re: Whitefriars Georgian glass copy pattern 2481?
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2014, 07:41:36 AM »
Strange,i suppose there is a chance they've never been used?i think they maybe or copying the arch moulded bowl of about 1830,hopefully someone with alot more idea will come along later.


Offline Paul S.

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Re: Whitefriars Georgian glass copy pattern 2481?
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2014, 09:14:43 AM »
hello Chris  -  looking at the pontil scar, I can see ingrained dirt /discolouration, plus what appears to be some wear on the extremity of the foot rim............ so there does appear to be some age despite your comment that these look new.
Could be wrong, but I'd also agree with the comments about these not being W/F's, although that doesn't mean they couldn't perhaps be an earlier C20 repro from one of the factories that specialized in copying Georgian/Regency styles.

As you'll know, blown-moulded work (prior to the invention of proper pressed glass), is characterized by the pattern being in negative so to speak on the inside of the vessel  -  a feature not found on pressed glass.

The shape/design of your glass suggests that (just possibly) this might be an example of an early part pressed rummer from around the middle of the C19  -  this should be apparent immediately if the inside of the bowl is smooth and without the negative impression of the outside pattern.
The bowl (only) was pressed, thus providing the pattern, and the collar, stem and foot were made separately, and attached, in the traditional way.

Without handling your glasses it's not really possible to be sure of my suggestions, but I'm just intrigued by the dirt in the pontil scar which to me always suggests some reasonable age.

Stuart  -  when you say 'arch moulded bowl of about 1830', are you referring to 'petal moulding'?? :)

Ref.    'Rummers A Social History Told in Glass' - Timothy Mills  -  2013 



Offline brucebanner

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Re: Whitefriars Georgian glass copy pattern 2481?
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2014, 10:03:15 AM »
Thanks guys i'll have a look at the inside of the bowl when i get in later.
Chris Parry


Offline bat20

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Re: Whitefriars Georgian glass copy pattern 2481?
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2014, 11:38:17 AM »
I took the description,"arch moulding",from hall marks of antique glass page 75 fig 63  Barry, ;),the last one in the middle row,seems close to an untrained eye.


Offline Paul S.

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Re: Whitefriars Georgian glass copy pattern 2481?
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2014, 06:16:25 PM »
hmmm......    Barry  ?? ;)

Wilkinson's pix, generally, are on the small side and, especially in this instance which concerns clear glass, don't provide adequate details to really see what he is speaking about.      Very annoyingly the book doesn't include an index and the glossary is brief and doesn't discuss or explain decorative features such as this moulding.

Could be wrong, but I suspect bearing in mind the date the author gives for the item you're referring to, that his description is the equivalent of what we might more usually call petal moulding, something that is seen on tumblers, ales and rummers from the latter part of the C18 right through to the mid C19.
I think this method of creating moulded decoration was superseded by what became pressed glass, but as I say, difficult to see really any detail on Wilkingson's examples, so really only my interpretation.
You can see in the pic that I've attached examples of ales with blown-moulded petal moulding decoration, and the tops of the petals are very 'arched'..........the insides of the bowls are in negative to the outside moulding.

just my opinions, so let's see what others think. :)


Offline brucebanner

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Re: Whitefriars Georgian glass copy pattern 2481?
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2014, 06:21:54 PM »
These two glasses i have posted, you can feel the shape from the inside Paul, in negative it's not smooth. Does that mean they were blown instead of pressed ?
Chris Parry

 

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