Author Topic: Baccarat?  (Read 2340 times)

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Offline Nadine

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Baccarat?
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2006, 09:12:14 PM »
Here is the picture from the Baccarat weight in this style:

http://www.paperweights24.de/bilder/baccarat.jpg

As you can see, the latticinios are very different to your weight, and there are no flower canes etc.

It seems, the chinese glassworkers did not only copy the pansy and some nosegays from clichy, they also had their own idea from a macedoine weight :-)


Offline Leni

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Baccarat?
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2006, 07:30:27 AM »
Thanks to everyone for the comments.   :D  I think this weight is definitely Chinese, but older.  The puzzling thing is that the latticino canes and twists are very, very good!  Much better than the encasing!  :shock: Someone in China was very good indeed at copying the Baccarat canes, but let down by whoever made the final weight.  

Also, perhaps the addition of the flower cane was a way of indicating that this was Chinese, thus 'protecting' the maker from accusations of faking, as that is the one thing which should have told me straight away that it wasn't a genuine Baccarat!   :oops:  :roll:  

Does anyone have an idea of the date?  The story I heard was that this copying of antique weights was started in the 1930's, but I have also heard that it continued until the '60's   :?  I do have an older Chinese millefiori weight and, although the canes are quite good, the encasing glass, while relatively free from bubbles and frit, is the yellowish, poor quality glass frequently associated with the older Chinese weights.  This 'fake Baccarat' weight is encased in a 'whiter' glass, although it is still not as good as the modern Chinese glass, some of which is virtually indistinguishable from glass made anywhere else!  

Well, I think this is an interesting weight, even though it's not worth repolishing, and I shall just add it to my collection.  It's clearly not going to be sold on at a profit, but that's not what I do anyway, is it?   :wink:  :roll:  :lol:
Leni


Offline KevinH

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Baccarat?
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2006, 04:58:34 PM »
Just for interest, here's another one, which the seller has been told may be Ysart ... hence the price, I suppose!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PAPERWEIGHT-I-CALL-IT-SCRAMBLES-8_W0QQitemZ7302302614QQcategoryZ2744QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
KevinH


Offline Nadine

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Baccarat?
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2006, 11:52:01 PM »
Hi Leni,

I think your weight was made between 1910 and 1930.

Best wishes
Nadine


Offline m1asmithw8s

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Baccarat?
« Reply #14 on: May 26, 2006, 01:29:42 AM »
The canes in this  

 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PAPERWEIGHT-I-CALL-IT-SCRAMBLES-8_W0QQitemZ7302302614QQcategoryZ2744QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem  

ebay listing are also vintage Chi circa the 1930s. No Ysart there.


Offline Leni

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Baccarat?
« Reply #15 on: May 26, 2006, 09:59:31 AM »
Quote from: "Nadine"
I think your weight was made between 1910 and 1930.

Thanks, Nadine  :D

As ever, I wonder what happened to the talented Chinese glassworkers who produced the twists and canes and millefiori which were in those early copies of antique French weights  :?  Presumably their work didn't 'fit' the Chinese ethic of mass-production, quantity not quality, and the distortion of the communist ideal, which denies the recognition of individual talent!     :(
Leni


Offline wrightoutlook

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pictorial guide to Baccarat scramble from the classic period
« Reply #16 on: May 26, 2006, 01:08:37 PM »
Perhaps this will assist others in knowing the look of the classic 19th-century Baccarat scramble or macedoine. The differences between the true French-made Baccarat scramble and the lesser quality China-made imitation are striking; from the colors, to the rigid angles of the latticino and ribbons, to the carefully curved base with its frosted ring.

http://i4.tinypic.com/10q9ysn.jpg


Offline KevinH

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Baccarat?
« Reply #17 on: May 26, 2006, 03:08:21 PM »
And other examples of 19th c French scrambled weights can be seen in the PCC (formerly CPC) 1999 Exhibtion pages:

A Baccarat:
http://www.kevh.clara.co.uk/exhib99/Antique/French/Baccarat/BacScrambled21.htm

A St Louis:
http://www.kevh.clara.co.uk/exhib99/Antique/French/StLouis/SLScramble22.htm

Another St Louis:
http://www.kevh.clara.co.uk/exhib99/Antique/French/StLouis/SLScramble19.htm
KevinH


Offline Leni

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Baccarat?
« Reply #18 on: May 26, 2006, 03:12:31 PM »
I've edited the picture of my 'Chinese Baccarat' weight to make it clearer.

Thanbks, Kev.  I looked at all those and still 'fell for it'  :oops:  :roll:

(But so did Ray!   :shock: )
Leni


Offline Nadine

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Baccarat?
« Reply #19 on: May 26, 2006, 10:50:37 PM »
Another "typically" antique Baccarat, which I´ve sold last week:

http://www.paperweights24.de/bilder/baccaratmacedoineantik/index.html

 

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