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Author Topic: Red and white spiral twist stem ale glass? help please  (Read 246 times)

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Offline brucebanner

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Red and white spiral twist stem ale glass? help please
« on: June 29, 2014, 03:12:31 PM »
Hello there i picked this up today, it did not cost a lot, it looks to be made in three parts i thought the base had been superglued back on as there are very tiny bubbles near the pontil that looked at first like glue, there is wear to the outer edge of the base and the bowl has striations, no seeds and it does not ring when tapped, the glass is grey in colour, i have no idea how old this is, any help welcome please, regards Chris.

It's 6 3/4 inches in height 2 1/2 inches across the rim and 3 inches across the base
Chris Parry

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Offline Paul S.

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Re: Red and white spiral twist stem ale glass? help please
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2014, 04:38:55 PM »
regret I can't help with dating, or origin come to that  -  but I suspect this is a quite modern piece.

However, the one feature, probably more than any other that gives this away as being not period is that it has the wrong sort of twist.           As far as I know, on genuinely old pieces the twists - whether white or coloured - should descend from right to left - this one appears to go from left to right.
I suspect the knop is also wrong for Georgian.     

But attractive, and you can always use it, so not a complete waste of money ;)

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Offline brucebanner

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Re: Red and white spiral twist stem ale glass? help please
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2014, 04:44:07 PM »
It's not big enough for my kind of tot, lovely looking glass though. ;)
Chris Parry

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Offline brucebanner

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Re: Red and white spiral twist stem ale glass? help please
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2014, 08:18:46 PM »
I'm looking through millers glass for something completely different and there are a few air-twists Paul with central and multiple swelling knops all dated Georgian 1750, i can see what you mean right to left though.
Chris Parry

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Offline oldglassman

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Re: Red and white spiral twist stem ale glass? help please
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2014, 08:43:09 PM »
Hi ,
          Paul is quite correct ,the twist goes the wrong way , these glasses are well known and thought to be c 1900 ,non lead and may be Dutch ,though I am not sure any one is certain which country produced them, this one looks more the proportions of a wine glass rather than an ale.

cheers ,
                 Peter.

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Offline Paul S.

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Re: Red and white spiral twist stem ale glass? help please
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2014, 08:51:04 PM »
thanks Peter.

Chris  -  I don't seem to have that particular Miller's - although I have quite a lot of pix showing genuinely old pieces with coloured twists, and having looked quickly couldn't see a match for yours, but dare say that stems were adorned in various ways. :)

 

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Offline brucebanner

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Re: Red and white spiral twist stem ale glass? help please
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2014, 08:58:08 PM »
Thanks guys, there looks like there is one second on the left in this Christies auction it looks same as mine left to right, still i think i got a bargain for ten quid, i'll take a hundred years old for a tenna.
http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/lot/a-georgian-air-twist-wine-glass-3973331-details.aspx?intObjectID=3973331
Chris Parry

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Offline oldglassman

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Re: Red and white spiral twist stem ale glass? help please
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2014, 09:08:48 PM »
Hi ,
             Yep both glasses on the left (lot 413) are the same as yours ,  Christies !!  no surprise really .

Peter.

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Offline Paul S.

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Re: Red and white spiral twist stem ale glass? help please
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2014, 11:49:11 AM »
I hadn't realized that this reproduction appears to have had a long history as a known copy of a much earlier style, so you'd think that there would be no mistaking it, especially by those who are involved with such items.

A similar piece, of exactly the same height, is shown in Daisy Wilmer's book 'Early English Glass' (1910), and her caption to the illustration says........"Opaque-twist Forgery, with Knopped Stem and Plain Foot.    Height 6.3/4".        Unfortunately, the author doesn't offer any suggestions as to origin.

Speaking of copies and forgeries, Wilmer says of this particular design  ..... "shows a better sort of imitation, and one of many which appeared about fifteen years ago; it is illustrated in Mr. Hartshorne's book as an example of a forgery.     In this instance the spiral revolves to the right, and has a curious transparent appearance not at all typical of the workmanship of the eighteenth century."

The lady also comments that........"The combined ruby and opaque twist is frequently copied....."

and finally she says of these copies (despite the obvious flaws when compared to the originals).........."purchasers are readily found who are willing to pay four or five shillings (20p or 25p in decimal) for a single glass".

So hope you didn't overpay Chris ;) ;)             I was very surprised to see to see that this type of repro. had been known for well over 100 years.

 

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Offline brucebanner

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Re: Red and white spiral twist stem ale glass? help please
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2014, 12:27:16 PM »
No i it only cost ten quid, i think i might have over payed for a bit of Webb cameo glass though i'm not sure if it's real or not i'll put it on see what you think, that cost a hundred.
Chris Parry

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