No-one likes general adverts, and ours hadn't been updated for ages, so we're having a clear-out and a change round to make the new ones useful to you. These new adverts bring in a small amount to help pay for the board and keep it free for you to use, so please do use them whenever you can, Let our links help you find great books on glass or a new piece for your collection. Thank you for supporting the Board.

Author Topic: Black Amethyst Spill or Vase  (Read 2511 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Sid

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 434
    • Canada
    • Glasfax
Black Amethyst Spill or Vase
« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2006, 12:19:16 AM »
Mr. Stewart:

I absolutely agree that generalizations are dangerous. I tried not to make any. My initial point was that it is unlikely that the ebay posey was made in the United States.  I have put forth my thoughts concerning the piece in question and provided specific examples to back up my reasoning.

Even more dangerous than generalizations is a closed mind.  Please read your last response. I don't know what the expression in the UK would be, but here in Canada we would say "Give your head a shake!".  If you look at a catalog issued by Davidson, Sowerby or others, you will see numerous examples of celeries with similar styles.  Not the same pattern, but similar styles.  For example- Davidson 214, 215, 223.  It is quite possible that there are continental examples that also fit this style but that would also support my initial point.
 
I  welcome a response concerning these apparently related pieces from anyone who can add to the discussion in a positive manner.

Sid Lethbridge

Support the Glass Message Board by finding a book via book-seek.com


Offline ChrisStewart

  • Author
  • Members
  • ***
  • Posts: 240
    • http://www.cloudglass.com
Black Amethyst Spill or Vase
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2006, 08:08:47 PM »
Mr Lethbridge,

I thought I was making a positive point - generalisations can be misleading. I release you were making the point that the eBay item was not made in the US, but I was also putting forward arguments that it was not necessarily made in the UK.

There are similarity in styles made in the UK and the continent, and hence one has to be careful in attribution if there is no supporting documentation. I am currently researching a sequel to our book – Davidson glass a history. The sequel, called Davison glass an identification guide, will be an identification guide for all Davidson glass from 1867 to 1987. In doing this research I have found many examples where similar styles have been made both by Davidson and other companies, both in the UK and abroad. The conclusion, therefore, is that one has to be careful when attributing items to a particular factory or country without supporting evidence. Past experience in the area of cloud glass, also makes me very cautious  when identifying glass.

In the case of the celery vase, I was simply pointing out that the windmill motif is not usually found on Victorian glass made in the UK, the only example I am aware of is the can mentioned in my previous post. Footed celery vases were made in the UK and the continent, so shape is not a good enough indicator alone.

I am sorry that you mistook the tone of my last post. It was intended to further the discussion. If you feel I should go and ‘shake my head’, and are not willing to listen to another with experience in this field then I will not continue to contribute to this post.


Regards

Chris
from Chris Stewart

http://www.cloudglass.com - The Cloud Glass Reference Site
http://www.davidson-glass.com - Information on Davidson Glass

All images (c) Chris and Val Stewart unless otherwise stated

Support the Glass Message Board by finding glass through glass-seek.com


Offline jsmeasell

  • Author
  • Members
  • ***
  • Posts: 247
Black Amethyst Spill or Vase
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2006, 10:09:36 PM »
This is a good discussion ... and I want to see it continue.

My wife and I looked most carefully at the blue piece on eBay. We have a large collection of British pressed glass (including pieces commemorating the marriage of Victoria and Albert), and a number of books which contain portraits or photographs of other likenesses of Victoria and Albert. We both felt that the portrait on the blue piece was not Victoria. We will be doing some comparisons with Continental pieces to see where that leads.

On the matter of styles and similarities, I would note that designs in glass have a way of leaping from continent to continent quite readily. I have 10 or 12 examples of Harry Northwood's work between 1889 and 1910 which link directly to British production or to his training in art.
James Measell, Historian
Fenton Art Glass Co.

Support the Glass Message Board by finding a book via book-seek.com


Offline Sid

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 434
    • Canada
    • Glasfax
Black Amethyst Spill or Vase
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2006, 12:51:36 AM »
Chris:

Obviously, I took your previous note the wrong way.  I couldn't understand what the windmill had to do with our debate and took it as sarcasm.  Your most recent post makes the point of your response easier to comprehend.    I hope that we can continue this discussion.

Sid

Jim:

Interesting thought. I would interested in what you find but feel that this is Victoria and Albert.

At first sight, the portrait on the blue posey is similar to the portrait designed by William Wyon on this medal for the 1851 Great Exhibition:

http://www.christophereimer.co.uk/single/9018.html

But there are a few obvious differences - on the medal Victoria has a laurel in her hair and has earrings and a necklace while on the posey she has a crown and no jewelry. Victoria's image on the blue posey looks more like her image on the penny black which was inturn inspired by the City Medal designed by Wyon in 1837:

http://imagesoftheworld.org/stamps/wyon.htm

It would be helpful if the original poster could provide a closeup of the person on the black posey and a photo of the reverse side.

Sid

Support the Glass Message Board by finding glass through glass-seek.com


 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk
Look for glass on
ebay.co.uk
Visit the Glass Encyclopedia
link to glass encyclopedia
Look for glass on
ebay.com (us)
Visit the Online Glass Museum
link to glass museum


This website is provided by Angela Bowey, PO Box 113, Paihia 0247, New Zealand