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Author Topic: When is a crown a crown?  (Read 547 times)

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Offline BobKegeles

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When is a crown a crown?
« on: July 30, 2014, 07:26:47 AM »
This is probably a dumb question.

Does a paperweight have to have a center millefiori center top, to be considered a "crown"?

Or can I (reasonably) call any latticino that has vertical straight or spiral zanfirico or reticelo canes that come together at the center top, even without the millefiori center, a crown?

When I check definitions, they generally include the murine in the center.
Bob Kegeles

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Offline tropdevin

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Re: When is a crown a crown?
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2014, 09:36:20 AM »
***

Hi.  I don't think there is any categoric answer to your question. Different people might well have different opinions, and there is no single absolute authority on paperweight terms - just 'common usage', which can vary from country to country!

For me, the key points of a crown are that there is a broadly spherical structure made of parallel staves (which may remain straight or be made with some twist).  The millefiori cane on top is just a practical means of hiding the join - but can add to the overall attractiveness if chosen carefully.  The Murano paperweights that are ovoid, with a loose latticino spiral, would not count as crowns for me, for example.

I have attached images of two paperweights from my 'Murano project' pages, which - to me - are a crown, with a millefiori centre, and a spiral.  Others may not agree!

Alan
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Offline SophieB

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Re: When is a crown a crown?
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2014, 09:48:58 AM »
Hi Bob,

'What constitutes a crown?' Good question. I must admit I have never asked myself that but I agree with Alan's definition.

IMHO, I do not think that there needs to be a millefiori 'to crown the weight' so as to make it a crown: it can have a bubble, a lamp work (flowers are quite common) or nothing at all.

I have attached pictures of three crowns that show the various options that I mentioned above (although the crown by Eugenio Ferro is their take on the idea and may not be regarded as an example of a classic crown).

I'd be interested to see what people think.

SophieB

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Offline BobKegeles

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Re: When is a crown a crown?
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2014, 05:56:54 PM »
Thank you both, you're on the same page as I am.

I wouldn't even have asked, except that I saw "definitions" that defined the center single murine as part of a "crown".

Though, I must say, I wouldn't have described the spiral egg that Alan showed as a crown.

: )

Thanks,

Bob
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Offline tropdevin

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Re: When is a crown a crown?
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2014, 07:12:34 PM »
***

Hi Bob

Your 'definitions' were not from the totally 'expletive deleted' useless pages of Hobbizine (provided buy some less than halfwit who thinks that plagiarising 70 year old books and catalogues is 'state of the art' ID info - and that images are not necessary), buy any chance?

Alan
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Offline BobKegeles

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Re: When is a crown a crown?
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2014, 09:34:06 PM »
LOL, no.

One was from that bastion of all truth Wikipedia.

"Another variation is the Crown weight. It has twisted ribbons, alternately colored and lacy white, which radiate from the crown from a central millefiori floret down to converge again at the base. This was first devised in the Saint Louis factory and remains popular today."

Just for fun, here are two lovely groups of simple crowns that I currently have.

One group of three with the millefiori centers, and the other group of simple pretty spirals.
Bob Kegeles

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Offline BobKegeles

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Re: When is a crown a crown?
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2014, 09:53:23 PM »
Hey Alan, I keep meaning to ask you.

I have photos of hundreds of Murano w8s that I've listed and sold on eBay.

Are you still collecting photos for your Murano Project? And do you want them?

Lots of Flowers
lots of Millefiori,
lots of Scrambles,
some AVeM, (7 inchers)
some Zanirico,
a good number of what I call "fused" millefiori,
some Antica Murrina (I love those small suckers with the itty bitty canes),
and even one I've posted recently here, a lead crystal piece from Antica Murrina with the flat "jewelry style" disk in the recessed bottom, (I just procured six more of those, in their original Antica Murrina gift boxes).
Bob Kegeles

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Offline tropdevin

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Re: When is a crown a crown?
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2014, 06:22:39 AM »
***

Hi Bob.

I would welcome Murano images where there is no doubt about which factory made the piece (label / etched mark / signature).  My original intention was to try and link designs to factories.

Regarding the Wikipedia entry...it is a rather outdated and shallow overview. I edited it in the past to reflect the existence of classic factories other than the big 3, and of modern makers other than those in the US, but it is still unbalanced and inaccurate. I suspect that there were crowns made in Bohemia before Saint-Louis made any, for example.

Alan
Alan  (The Paperweight People  http://www.pwts.co.uk)

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The comments in this posting reflect the opinion of the author, Alan Thornton, and not that of the owners, administrators or moderators of this board. Comments are copyright Alan Thornton.

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Offline KevinH

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Re: When is a crown a crown?
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2014, 02:06:46 AM »
As mentioned by Sophie, and shown by her 3rd photo, some crown weights have an air bubble over a depression at the top, rather than a slice of cane (or nothing at all). In fact, Sophie's weight is a Paul Ysart item and most (or was it all?) of his crown weights had the bubble, not a cane.

Interestingly the comprehensive book by Paul H Dunlop: The Dictionary of Glass Paperweights, an illustrated primer has almost three pages devoted to comments about Crown weights, but has no reference at all (even in the part about "modern weights") to Crowns from Paul Ysart.
KevinH

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