Topic: Etched Glasses I thought then took a closer look..Just wondering

[petet63]

how this is done. They were in a lot i wanted and when I saw them i thought etched glasses and thought no more about it. When I cleared the crystal out I got these and saw that they have a fault line like on transfer printed porcelain when the transfer was misaligned. They are not lead glass and are heading to a Charity shop but they peaked my interest and I would like to know how it is done if anyone knows. Thanks

[Lustrousstone]

They are etched but they look like early ones. i.e., not by machine. I'd ebay them

[Frank]

Good chance they were done by transfer. Agree on early 20th century.

[Paul S.]

quote ...........   "but they look like early ones. i.e., not by machine".       Not sure what sort of period this is implying ?   -   although Frank seems to be agreeing that early C20 was being suggested.

Certain types of acid etched decoration are, apparently, more easily datable, or at least to a period - template etching appears to be an example of that type.                I'd agree these glasses look have been the subject of transfer work, a method which according to Barbara Morris began somewhere in the 1870's, and had connections, originally, with names such as Couper and Richardson.
I'm not suggesting these glasses are from the 1870 - but just to say that the transfer method does look to have started earlier than I'd thought.

Again, quoting Morris, "A good deal of the surviving etched glass of the later nineteenth century is undoubtedly of foreign origin." - comments which are supported by a quick look in S. & F., which includes a wide variety of styles from the last quarter of the C19.

Most of the etched glass seen is bottom end stuff, so easy to dismiss as being unworthy of collecting, but if you've not read Barbara Morris' chapter on Etched Glass then it's a real eye opener - some you'd die for.

think I'd keep one of these as an example of hurried use of a transfer.

Ref. 'Victorian Table Glass and Ornaments' - Barbara Morris  -  1978. (Chapter 7 - pp. 113 - 126).             

[Lustrousstone]

My implication was perhaps late 19th C.

think I'd keep one of these as an example of hurried use of a transfer

I'm not sure I'd agree with hurried use, more an example of the difficulties of such use of a transfer in a production setting.

[Ivo]

The combination transfer and etched does not make much sense to me - it suggests the decor is transferred from a template onto the glass. 

Etching a glass means it is first coated in a resist. The decor is scratched through the resist - by hand or via a simple template machine, or (after 1918) in a pantograph machine which would take multiples of  6 in one operation.

Can you clarify the procedure? 

[Ohio]

I guess there are differences in terminology as I am a bit confused. In the U.S. the term "transfer" is not a process at all its simply the pattern that is affixed to the piece to be etched. Etching to us means (1)  the piece is immersed in a tank of Hydroflouric acid with the applied "transfer" or (2) placed in a pantograph machine which produces what we refer to as "needle" etching.

The actual "plate" is  metal and has the background area etched away so that the main design area appears in raised relief to create the "pattern" to be affixed to the blank via the of transfer paper. Several different size plates may be required in each pattern to accommodate the variety of sizes and shapes of the many blanks used.

[Ohio]

Probably best if I use the process that used acid etching. This was written by the workers who actually did the job during the 1930s:

The etching process starts with two basic ingredients, an engraved plate and a solution called Etching Ground.

The plate is metal and has the background area etched away so that the main design area appears in raised relief. Several different size plates are required in each pattern to accommodate the variety of sizes and shapes of the many blanks.
The Etching Ground solution is prepared in the factory. It consists mainly of beeswax, lamp-black, rosin and turpentine. Those ingredients are mixed together and cooked at least overnight before they are used.

The Etching Ground is applied to the engraved plate with a special steel knife which will deposit the wax into the low areas of a plate and will keep the higher pattern area scraped clean.

A special type of transfer paper is then cut to proper size and applied to the wax covered plate. A piece of felt is used to rub the paper and cause it to adhere to the wax. Keeping the plates slightly warm permits the wax to be lifted from the plate along with the transfer paper.The transfer is now ready to be applied to the blank to be decorated. It is covered with wax in all of the areas of background, and the lines that make up the design of the pattern are without the wax cover. It is then applied in the proper position to the blank and rubbed gently with felt which causes it to adhere to the glass.

This process is repeated as often as required for the blank being prepared.
The blank with the transfers applied is then immersed in a solution of alcohol and water. This wetting will permit the removal of the paper from the wax, and comples the actual pattern transfer operation.

The blank is then sent to a "paint girl" who covers all of the remaining exposed areas of glass. Using a small paint brush and working from a heated pot of Etching Ground, she completes this operation entirely by hand.

As many as two dozen articles, depending upon their size, will then be stuck to a wax covered board approximately 18 by 24 inches. This board containing the blanks that are to be etched is then inverted and immersed in a tank of acid. Hydroflouric acid is used and it was controlled at a constant temperature.
The etching process requires a time frame of from three to eight minutes. This is controlled by the acid's strength and the desired depth of the pattern being etched.

Upon being removed from the acid, the article is placed in the "scalder". This is a machine that uses a combination of hot water and steam to remove the etching ground from the article. During this procedure the wax is carried by the water into a tank built into the base of the machine. Here the wax will float, enabling the workers to skim it off for reuse.

The article of glass which started out as a plain blank, has now been etched with a pattern and has had the wax removed from it. The final etching process occurred on the sawdust table. Here the article was dried, cleaned, and polished by a brisk rub-down of sawdust.

[Paul S.]

I was about to post, and my OH said she wanted the pc  -  so I disappeared for a coffee.
I appreciate that Ohio has give a very good explanation of things - his side of the pond - so hope he won't object to my few words that would have been posted had I not been delayed

It's very interesting to see that whereas CH describes the resist being within the intaglio part of the copper plate  -  Ohio's description is the reverse, and it has to be said that as is often the case when we speak of methods, differences occur depending on whereabouts you are on the globe.

"probably not without much repeating, verbatim, of Barbara Morris' words, but there seems no doubt that transfers appear to be one of the main processes for creating images in the second half of the C20.     

As opposed to straight forward machine acid-etching  -  the sort that produces multiple repeats of geometric patterns (Greek keys etc.) and the template-machine process  -  transfer-printing as described by Morris appears to have been complex, and involved taking an image from a lithographic stone (those heavy buff coloured lumps from France).

According to Morris there was a simpler method of transfer-etching (without the lithographic stone), and this appears to have evolved using transfers on which were designs created using acid-resisting inks, the acid biting presumably in the non-inked areas.

Charles Hajdamach 'British Glass 1800 - 1914', describes a similar process involving transfer tissue  -  possibly less complex than using the lithographic stone.
An image is created on copper - the plate is coated with resist which is forced into the intaglio lines of the image and the plate is then wiped clean.        The plate is overlaid with a paper/tissue and the whole thing put through a press, whereby the tissue picks up the image - in the form of the resist - this is then removed from the copper plate, and the tissue is then laid onto the glass.
Obviously there's a little more to it than this rather bald explanation  -  but hope it 'clarifies the procedure' for you"

[Fuhrman Glass]

The plates that I have owned and I've had quite a few, were not copper but steel. Lotus Glass In Ohio in the US was one the last companies I knew that did this type of etchings. I donated the last examples I had to the Museum of American Glass in W.V.