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Author Topic: "Success to the EAGLE FRIGATE Privateer" Goblet  (Read 1041 times)

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Offline SimonD

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"Success to the EAGLE FRIGATE Privateer" Goblet
« on: August 17, 2014, 01:08:46 PM »
This goblet is somewhat of an enigma to me, and I am looking for further information on it. The goblet itself appears to be a genuine Georgian one c1760, but the engraving may have been added later.

The goblet is good quality (bright ring, etc) and measures 7 inches tall with a 2 3/4 inch bowl and 3 1/2 inch foot.  There is a somewhat naive engraving of a boat above which are the words 'Success to the EAGLE FRIGATE Privateer. The elongated S in "Success" doesn't look correct - rather like a modern interpretation, without the bar. There are some very well known Eagle Frigate Privateer glasses, but the ship and text on this glass are not the same style and quality.

I noticed an almost identical glass in Christie's Sale 5068 (8 Mar 2011), described there as "The glass circa 1760, the engraving later", which did not seem to deter the bidders unduly. Actually, it is a very handsome glass! A similar glass (possibly the very same, else there could be a few about!) appearing on Antiques Roadshow (2012, Lullworth Castle) with a consistent description.

Assuming the glass is correct, does anyone know when the engraving was added, or by whom?

Best wishes, Simon

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Offline SimonD

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Re: "Success to the EAGLE FRIGATE Privateer" Goblet
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2014, 01:17:05 PM »
Oh - and here is a very similar goblet (size wise) with a "Success to the BRITISH NAVY" theme. The writing looks like the same hand as the one on my original posting. The engraving of the ships is very appealing indeed, suggests a Napoleonic period which clearly is not contemporary with the glass.

I had found no reference to other glass items with this engraving, so this may not be a deliberate copy of an earlier glass. The wording "British Navy" is odd (not Royal Navy) and may suggest a date as to when the engraving was added.

Simon


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Offline oldglassman

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Re: "Success to the EAGLE FRIGATE Privateer" Goblet
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2014, 02:42:57 PM »
 Hi ,
           it would be my opinion that both of your glasses are reproductions from the very late 19th or 20th Century," Eagle privateers" are very well documented and ALL are much smaller glasses than the later reproductions,no period "eagle "privateers are recorded in this size , from memory(i could be wrong) the glass on the "roadshow" was described accurately by John Sandon as a reproduction , dated as above with size being the first telling sign, see here for a real one ,  http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/21227/lot/46/ , and here ,    http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/19675/lot/111/

The Christie's glass result is an anomaly it could be that in this case the glass was period and the engraving was later,(auction descriptions should never be taken as gospel,I cant be certain from your photo) ,hence the very low result or as is common 2 bidders got carried away with themselves,your second glass probably from the same camp though in this case I am pretty sure the glass is not period , so both glass and engraving in this case are probably early 20th century,these too have been seen before , and eagles I have had , but no real ones to date ,
Who made them ? has not been established but several companies including Stevens & Williams and Edinburgh & Leith produced replica commemorative pieces, Jacobites included.

so sorry you dont have around 20.000 worth but at the right price ,(not Christies price) they are nice things to have and in comparison to the originals at least these hold a decent amount of plonk.

cheers ,
               Peter.

edit,,     it is also worth noting that on period Privateers the inscriptions are done with diamond point and are not wheel engraved .

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Offline SimonD

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Re: "Success to the EAGLE FRIGATE Privateer" Goblet
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2014, 03:44:08 PM »
Peter, many thanks for that great information. Guess I'll cancel that cruise!

I did a quick remeasure, since size seems a key determining factor, and it's important to be precise. Both my glasses measure 6.75in (17.1cm). Christie's example 17.2cm, and Bonham's 16.6cm and 16.5cm.

King regards
Simon

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Offline oldglassman

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Re: "Success to the EAGLE FRIGATE Privateer" Goblet
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2014, 03:56:04 PM »
 Hi ,
          Yes , the Bonhams examples are all smaller , they are the real ones, also the proportion of the bowls on the later ones are much larger , so not just height but bowl size is relevant,yours would probably class as small goblets whereas the 18th c Eagles are all what would be called wine glasses in the 18th century.(too small in my opinion lol )


cheers,
    Peter.

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