Topic: Amethyst pressed glass coal truck open salt

[mhgcgolfclub]

A pressed glass amethyst coal truck open salt. I thought it was Heppell & Co in a colour I could not remember seeing it in before. But when I compare it to a Heppell coal truck in Colin R Lattimore's book English 19th Century Pressed Moulded Glass there are quite a few differences.

There are only 3 panel sections in length, less panel sections in height and the wheels are different. Did Heppell make this coal truck as well ?.

I be interested in any thoughts on this.

Thanks Roy

[Paul S.]

hello Roy  -  regret I can't say whether Heppell made more than one design of coal truck salt - but the one we see usually is quite different as you say, and is Rd. 351191 dated 19th June 1880  -  I've attached my one and only picture of the example I did have, and the four upright panels look to be the most noticeable difference.

I don't recall looking at the Kew images for this Registration, but tomorrow will post a picture of the pattern which was lodged with Kew, unless Fred can tell me I've done that already, and it's on the Board somewhere

[agincourt17]

I've checked my reference photos for lozenge-marked examples of the Heppell RD 351191 coal truck, plus numerous photos of attributed examples shown on the internet, and,as Roy says, they all seem to be 4 panels wide, more panels high, and the spaces between the wheel spokes have a more rounded outline than those on Roy's amethyst coal truck.

As far I as I am aware, Paul has not already shown the Kew images for Heppell  RD 351191of 19 June 1890 on the GMB, and I would be interested to see them in due course.

Fred.
 

[jsmeasell]

What are the dimensions of the amethyst coal truck? My wife and I have, in crystal or various other colours, 4-panel versions that are about 12.5 cm long and another that is 9 cm long. For whatever it's worth, we also have a George Peabody mug (by Greener) that looks to be very much the same amethyst colour.

[mhgcgolfclub]

A couple more pictures of the Heppell coal truck I have.

Roy

[Paul S.]

The image for the original Heppell Board of Trade application was a sepia photograph, and these don't re-photograph too well, but think you can see that it adds nothing new to what we know already for Registration 351191.

I'm not aware of seeing other coal truck salts in the National Archives, but that's not to say there's definitely nothing else there.

[mhgcgolfclub]

Hi Paul

Thanks for posting your picture , I found I still have 4 pictures of the same coal truck and added 2.

I thinking that its most likely not Heppell just a gut feeling. I do not think they would have made 2 different coal trucks. I cannot remember seeing any Heppell glass in amethyst and think the colour may be a clue as to who may of made it.

James my amethyst coal truck is 78mm in length so quite a bit smaller than yours. I have also been trying to think who made glass in a similar colour. I did think of Greener but this seems to be better quality than most Greener items.

Greener also made there own coal truck which is completely different , the one other company I think used  a simila amethyst colour was Derbyshire I seem to remember a pickle jar I had. I also thought of Thomas Kidd who made novelty items but do not know which colours.

Roy

[brucebanner]

Here is another of these little coal trucks in amber, the archive pick Paul has eight spokes not six like mine and yours.

There is one the same as the archive pic on the net for sale at the minute, it's much bigger.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/W-H-Heppell-Newcastle-pressed-glass-coal-mine-wagon-1880-/171780979477?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item27fef1bb15

This amber one is 3 1/2 inches by 2 1/4 inches across the top off the truck and 2 1/4 inches in height.

[Paul S.]

thanks Chris, well spotted   .........   It doesn't appear that any of us had commented earlier in this thread re Colin Lattimore's caption to his picture of the two trucks, both shown in the same photograph in his book, and for which he doesn't provide information to support his contention that the smaller truck is also a Hepple design...........   although it may possibly be theirs of course.
We are accustomed to knowing that British C19 factories Registered, frequently, a basic shape in pressed glass, to which later decorative additions were added.           However, it's confusing with instances such as these trucks, to feel confident one way or the other as to maker, when there is substantial size difference plus design alterations.

To quote from Colin Lattimore's book  -  regarding Hepple's 1880 novel designs  ............   "" a sugar basin in the form of a coal scuttle; a container in various sizes in the form of a coal truck used in the collieries (see plate 68), which presumably could be used for either sugar or salt according to its size; and finally a wheelbarrow with the design imitating wooden planking.""

Even with Hepple's 1880 Registration of their 'coal truck' design, this would have only prevented other U.K. factories from doing the same for the three year protection afforded by the registration - after which copying someone else's design was fair game.           
Do we know the source of Lattimore's statement ..........   "various sizes in the form of a coal truck"  -  he may well have obtained this information from the Pottery Gazette or a Hepple catalogue for all I know  -  but certainly from information in this thread it doesn't appear that there are any known smaller six spoked trucks carrying Hepple Registration details.

It does seem that this larger truck is the only known size carrying Registration details for Hepple, which may or may not support Roy's comments that  "I do not think they would have made 2 different coal trucks."

Presumably the Greener truck to which Fred refers carries that factory's Registration details  -  don't think I've ever seen one, and don't know when it was Registered.

That's my two pennyworth.

P.S.    just to repeat that the Hepple truck Registration 351191 is from June 1880 and not 1890

[brucebanner]

Could be 3 years older than the dated one then, most search results now point here on a large amount of glass i hope this website is protected for future generations.

Imagine if Colin had the internet in 1979

Got the book on order