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Author Topic: underplate with mystery mark.  (Read 1667 times)

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Offline Paul S.

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underplate with mystery mark.
« on: September 05, 2014, 04:12:14 PM »
massive amounts of limescale which fortunately now removed, but problem remains as to meaning of mark.
Probably an underplate of some description, and plenty of wear caused by what may have been jardiniere/flower pot etc.
The oval in relief says  REGISTER'D  30TH APRIL 1864  with No. 4631 in the centre.    About 7" in diameter.
Neither correspond with each other so mystery  -  although I'd assumed it was a Board of Trade Registration.

Perhaps it's just a modern piece given a meaningless mark to make it look old, and it certainly achieves that.
Looking for ideas if anyone can help please.  thanks :)


Offline Frank

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Re: underplate with mystery mark.
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2014, 05:33:36 PM »
Should be 1884, perhaps a mis-stamping :)

Offline Paul S.

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Re: underplate with mystery mark.
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2014, 06:09:35 PM »
that had occurred to me already - but unfortunately it doesn't seem to work :)

By the time you get to 30th April 1884 the Rd. Nos. are in the region of 5849 - so way past my No.

Offline Lustrousstone

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Re: underplate with mystery mark.
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2014, 06:59:28 PM »
An American mark?

Offline Paul S.

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Re: underplate with mystery mark.
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2014, 07:33:32 PM »
looking in Ivo's booklet, the answer appears to be no (page 43).          For 1864 the Rd. Nos. are in the range 1879 to 2017.

Offline Frank

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Offline Paul S.

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Re: underplate with mystery mark.
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2014, 06:37:45 AM »
thanks Frank, but my last post referred to States Rd. Nos. as shown in Ivo's book, and as you can see from the Great Glass details, 4631 wouldn't correspond to 30th April in the British series. :)

Offline Anne

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Re: underplate with mystery mark.
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2014, 03:24:54 AM »
Butter dish! http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C14036520  8)

Reference:   BT 45/24/4631
Description:
Useful Registered Design Number: 4631.
Proprietor: Thomas George Webb.
Address: Manchester Glass Works, Manchester, Lancashire.
Subject: Butter dish.
Category: Earthenware, China, Pottery, Kilns, Glazing.
Date:    1864 April 30
Held by:    The National Archives, Kew

Offline Paul S.

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Re: underplate with mystery mark.
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2014, 11:35:43 AM »
now who's a clever lady - you're not a Dame for nothing Anne :-*          Why didn't ordinary mortals like me think of the possibility of an Earthenware (CLASS IV) design.
 
Not being a collector of ceramics, I know little or nothing about U.K. Class IV during the period in question.
As most people know, the British Board of Trade separated entirely the various materials - glass, wood, ceramics etc. etc. into material specific groups during the period 1842 to 1884, and as can be seen from my comments above that since this Rd. No. refused to correspond to the date shown, I'd assumed therefore that probably it wasn't a U.K. Registration...      shows how wrong you can be. :)   

Since we can't see this design on the pc screen, it'll need a visit to Kew to determine whether or not this dish represents the entire item being Registered, or whether there was perhaps a lid/top, as was the case usually in the C20 for butter dishes.         It might have been the case that in 1864 butter was put out onto the table fresh for each meal, and they didn't see the need for a lid.

Do people know if all earthenware Registrations - during this period - were marked with an oval as shown on this dish, instead of the lozenge (as in the case of glass - CLASS III)?

Again, sincere thanks for your sleuthing Anne - and I will comment further here after I've been to Kew and photographed the original image for this design. :)

P.S.  meant to request please that item is now removed to British.

Offline neilh

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Re: underplate with mystery mark.
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2014, 02:10:07 PM »
Wow - looks like you found a previously unknown Molineaux Webb registration. To me it looks most like the butter number 74 (and similar 73). Number 76 was the raised dots pattern and 78 the Greek Key, both August 1864, so with sequential numbering, just prior to that would match.

 

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