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Author Topic: Fake Australian Carnival  (Read 4199 times)

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Offline Cathy B

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Fake Australian Carnival
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2006, 01:21:32 PM »
LOL Glen :) Quite right, I haven't got your book :)

I've generally steered clear of Aus carnival (and carnival in general, except for the melon ribs), on the grounds that it's too expensive and there are pleny of other collectors out there who know a lot more. Hopefully some of these people will be watching when any more fakes start turning up.

Anyway, thanks for doing that page. Did you do the line drawings yourself? They're very good.

Cathy


Offline Glen

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Fake Australian Carnival
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2006, 01:36:39 PM »
Hi Cathy - the Melon Ribs are fascinating, aren't they?

Yes, I did the drawings. I've drawn a lot of Carnival Glass patterns. The most difficult were the Millersburg geometrics. It took me days to do each one - and I had trouble focussing after I had spent time drawing, as I was doing such close work.  :roll: Even funnier were the dreams I had at that time. I had spent so much of my time staring at the geometric patterns that it must have affected my subconscious! And I had these weirdy OpArt dreams - as if Bridget Riley had invaded my head.  :lol:

Anyhow, the thanks are all from me to YOU, for having spotted the fake in the first place. I am indebted to you .

Glen
Just released—Carnival from Finland & Norway e-book!
Also, Riihimäki e-book and Carnival from Sweden e-book.
Sowerby e-books—three volumes available
For all info see www.thistlewoods.net
Copyright G&S Thistlewood


Offline Cathy B

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Fake Australian Carnival
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2006, 01:47:00 PM »
Quote from: "Glen"
The most difficult were the Millersburg geometrics. It took me days to do each one - and I had trouble focussing after I had spent time drawing, as I was doing such close work.  :roll: Even funnier were the dreams I had at that time. I had spent so much of my time staring at the geometric patterns that it must have affected my subconscious! And I had these weirdy OpArt dreams - as if Bridget Riley had invaded my head.  :lol:


 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  Oh, I know what you mean though - I get a very small version of the same effect just looking at EAPG geometric patterns. Enough to drive you to drink...

Take care!
Cathy


Offline Glen

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Fake Australian Carnival
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2006, 04:05:54 PM »
Just a note to let anyone who is interested know that yet another Kingfisher berry (which is different again) has just shown up on Aussie eBay. I have updated / added details to my website article on these items.
http://www.geocities.com/carni_glass_uk_2000/FakeKingfisher.html

Glen
Just released—Carnival from Finland & Norway e-book!
Also, Riihimäki e-book and Carnival from Sweden e-book.
Sowerby e-books—three volumes available
For all info see www.thistlewoods.net
Copyright G&S Thistlewood


Offline Cathy B

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Fake Australian Carnival
« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2006, 12:47:21 AM »
Thanks again Glen,

It's heartening that so far they seem to be relatively obvious. Have you got the auction number of the fake?

Cathy


Offline Cathy B

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Fake Australian Carnival
« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2006, 01:27:23 AM »
Hi Glen,

This is more just for the record than for you particularly Glen. Thesegreen glass salts show up on Australian ebay with monotonous regularity. They are very obviously brand new, but tend to go for about $20+ I suspect because people mistake them for vintage wares.

EDIT: These items are definitely brand new. When ordered, they come compete with original packaging.

270003206314
260004994060
270003206321
260005102591
250003198059
270004779802
260003639058
260005104967
250004463884
260005105001
250004463908
290003386803
290003386845
290003707138
120004052965
270003206667
290003958431
290003958497
120005134287
120005133575
290004918768
290005255052


Offline Cathy B

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Fake Australian Carnival
« Reply #16 on: July 12, 2006, 07:08:14 AM »
Hi all, and especially Glen,

What do you think of the following?

7406563139

EDIT: The above is fake. Email me if you would like a copy of the photographs. As they are for review or research only, this is allowable as fair use under Australian copyright laws.

It's hard to tell with the shocky blurry photograph, but Crown didn't usually do a pink lustre on clear base. ??? With your eye for detail (though it's hard to see) what do you think? Does the tail have that striped effect that appears on some of the known repros?


Offline Glen

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Fake Australian Carnival
« Reply #17 on: July 12, 2006, 07:28:10 AM »
Hi Cathy - thanks for that auction link. I would say it is a fake. I'd base that on the following:

1. The colour/iridescence is not characteristic of Crown Crystal original Carnival. I know that CC did make some very rare pink based Carnival, but the pastel iridescence is not typical of CC.

2. The base appears to be wider than the CC original Kingfisher berry base.

3. There is that tell-tale seam around the edge (it can be seen around the wavy ruffles, just on the inside). This isn't on the originals.

The photos are taken in a way that means you just can't make out the pattern details, as you noted. The clear ones are taken at an angle, and the others are, as you say, shocky blurry!

Judging by the date of the auction, it would seem to be one of the earliest sightings of the Fakus Todimarphus Carnivalus Glassius (fake carnival glass kingfisher).

Thanks again, Cathy
Glen
Just released—Carnival from Finland & Norway e-book!
Also, Riihimäki e-book and Carnival from Sweden e-book.
Sowerby e-books—three volumes available
For all info see www.thistlewoods.net
Copyright G&S Thistlewood


Offline Cathy B

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Fake Australian Carnival
« Reply #18 on: July 12, 2006, 07:46:50 AM »
Hi Glen - It was actually the very first I spotted and I had it in my favourites list, but had forgotten about it until I was scrolling around today. I couldn't tell if it was a seam or camera shake. But yes, the originals have no seam, because of the strange moulds that they used.

(As an aside I once read a description of the moulding process Crown used, but it made no sense to me at all! Do you have any insight into it?).

So far, they all seem to be easy to pick. Do you think the sellers are mixing them in with the genuine to give themselves more credibility? Why do these sellers have so many of the genuine items?

Cathy


Offline Glen

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Fake Australian Carnival
« Reply #19 on: July 12, 2006, 08:01:12 AM »
Hi Cathy - I know that the first Carnival pieces made by CC were made using one piece moulds (thus no mould seams). This also meant that the bases of those first pieces (the Kingfisher berries and master) had a ground base (because the item was "stuck up" rather then being held in the snaps). Most later Carnival from CC was made in the same way as the greater part of USA Carnival - i.e. using 3 or 4 part moulds, hence mould seams showing on the glass, and without a ground base.

None of the original items I have seen have had that strange line around the top edge. This is where the top ring would have fitted onto the mould. It seems that the fakes have a different sort of ring - and perhaps their (poor) method of manufacture is causing seepage between the parts of the mould, along that edge. Just me thinking aloud here....

I do know that several Kingfisher berry fakes recently appeared at an auction in Oz (a real auction, not an on-line one). I understand they were a mix of dark and marigold examples. All the dark ones were very heavy in weight, the marigold was lighter.

It has been speculated that they are being made in Australia - but there's no proof. What is very unusual about them (and not really in common with other fakes that we've seen in the past) is that the designs keep changing! In an incredibly short space of time.

The only good thing is that they do stick out like a sore thumb. And so far they only seem to have faked the Kingfisher small berry.

I can't answer your questions about the sellers on eBay - wish I knew the answer to that!

It's quite a mystery really. Hopefully we'll get to the bottom of it all sometime.

Thanks again, Cathy.

Glen
Just released—Carnival from Finland & Norway e-book!
Also, Riihimäki e-book and Carnival from Sweden e-book.
Sowerby e-books—three volumes available
For all info see www.thistlewoods.net
Copyright G&S Thistlewood

 

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