Author Topic: Head in a Swirl, by any Chance?  (Read 10830 times)

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Offline David E

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Head in a Swirl, by any Chance?
« on: June 03, 2006, 10:31:56 AM »
Oh heck, why did I start this...? :roll:

In respect to Chance's 'Swirl' pattern, a few oddities are starting to crop up. Some I already know about, but there are a few that are causing me to query which is which :?

Christine recently posted one plate that I'm confident is not Swirl: smugly I pointed out that the swirl went in the opposite direction, and the fluting was not a Chance shape. Fine. Max also had the dish with a boar's head in the centre 'hole' that we eventually found to be Filigran by Unionglas. Okey-dokey.

However, I've now come across another two examples (one in my own collection :oops: ) where the swirl is in the opposite direction, but the shapes look right, so I feel the need to 'nail this sucker' as it's starting to annoy me! :twisted:

Here's one where the swirl is in the 'wrong' direction (anti-clockwise):
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7419813015

Note the gilt appears to overlap slightly (not necessarily Chance) but the design does not go to the edge (Chance-like). Size is also like Chance, so is it Chance? :?

We already know that Sherdley made a copy-cat design (we assume) called 'Twist'. However, I've still to find a piece that's been positively attributed to this design: a few possibilities but that's all.

I've decided to create a new page on http://www.chanceglass.net to show these anomolies... but any thoughts in the meantime?
David
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Offline Anne E.B.

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Head in a Swirl, by any Chance?
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2006, 11:23:58 AM »
David - do my eyes deceive me? :shock:  or do the lines look  much thicker than the Chance Swirl lines, and the gilt much heavier and thicker too?
Anne E.B


Offline David E

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Head in a Swirl, by any Chance?
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2006, 11:36:19 AM »
Well spotted, Anne :shock:

There are several possible deciding factors:
* Colour of spirals (often light-grey although later Swirl may have got brighter)
* Gilt edging (Chance did not usually overlap, but I may have some examples that do!)
* Direction of spiral — always clockwise that I can determine
* Spiral going to the edge of rim. Chance did on some examples, but not always?
* Spacing between spirals: I have one example where the swirls are in the wrong direction, but the spacing is exactly the same.
* Thickness of spirals

Lastly:
* Curve of spirals - some examples are not as tight as known Chance, but the trouble is this is not consistent across Chance's own range and the pattern/transfer was adapted to suit the plate/dish/bowl/glass/jug/carafe (et al) it was being used for. This will have to be compared like-for-like, i.e. the same sizes.

I'll post photos of my findings on this new web page, but have just found myself a whole load of work :?
David
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Offline chopin-liszt

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Head in a Swirl, by any Chance?
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2006, 01:15:19 PM »
:D :shock: :D

I've never paid any attention to the direction of the spirals - it's a "right -left" sort of problem, and I have to make a conscious effort, using extra image-pairing and anacronym things to work out which is which.

I did start to wonder about the number of arms on the spirals, though, but soon gave up when I realised that footed pudding bowls had a much smaller centre circle than the bread basket. (the 2 bits I have immediately to hand). I then had a look at the one on ebay which David says is in the wrong direction, thinking to count arms if it was the same size.

My bread basket is in the same direction as that one!!!!!!!

The ends of the arms reach the edges of the basket. Looking carefully at the edges of the basket, there is a very slim, ground and polished edge between the flat of the rim and the side of the bowl. This was gilded, along with the surface of the rim. The ends of the arms of the spiral are actually on this polished edge too, under the gilding. I can see this where the gilding has rubbed off.

Not a useless bread basket after all!
Cheers, Sue (M)

Three Wise Women would have asked for directions, arrived on time, delivered the baby, cleaned the stables and made a casserole...

And there WOULD have been peace on earth.


Offline David E

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Head in a Swirl, by any Chance?
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2006, 01:32:41 PM »
Thanks for your input, Sue (I think!) :lol:

I can hardly think that someone else would copy Chance's shapes so closely, as well as their pattern. I'm wondering if the transfer makers made a batch that went in the opposite direction? :oops: Perhaps a whole new collecting area for Chancers: 'The Mistakes' :wink:

You are right though: the central hole does vary in size, as do the spiral arms (frequency, gap, curve, etc.) The Giraffe Carafe and other drinkware throws everything into the mixing pot as well, so best to ignore these at this stage! My serviette holder also appears to go in the 'wrong' direction as well, so I'm not too sure about the reliability of that attribution!

OK, well I have been in touch with Tony Cartwright (just back off a cruise :sigh:) and will be meeting him soon, so perhaps he can shed some light on these oddities.

Web page now posted to get the thing rolling. Look under the 'Fiestaware' menu option and there's one for 'Swirl Imitations'. I still have a few possible photos to put under the 'Sherdley Twist?' section.
David
► Chance Additions ◄
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Offline Frank

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Head in a Swirl, by any Chance?
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2006, 01:39:45 PM »
Who made the transfers :?:
Frank A.
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Offline David E

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Head in a Swirl, by any Chance?
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2006, 01:45:15 PM »
I'm trying to find this out, Frank. I've asked Tony and he might have the answer.

EDIT: I sent him a batch of questions that will really help the research.
David
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Offline Anne

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Head in a Swirl, by any Chance?
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2006, 05:44:34 PM »
Just to add some more confusion to the pile David... I have photos of two sets which have both directions of swirls on them. One is a ruby swirl sandwich set where the large plate swirls clockwise and the small plates swirl anti-clockwise; the other is a clear swirl boat-shaped set where the larger boat swirls anti-clockwise and the smaller ones clockwise.

I think rather than assume alternative makers we need to consider the transfers themselves... could they be used either side up? Was their use both ways a standard thing or was it a feature of sets such as those I have pics of?

We may be able to attribute the variations in edging thickness, raggediness or otherwise of the central hole, and whether the lines meet the rim to slight changes over time as the pattern was tweaked / updated just slightly. Not enough so that consumers thought it was a whole new pattern but just to keep it looking fresh. Just a thought for discussion.  8)


Offline Anne E.B.

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Head in a Swirl, by any Chance?
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2006, 06:27:07 PM »
Quote from: "DenCill"
I'm wondering if the transfer makers made a batch that went in the opposite direction? :oops: Perhaps a whole new collecting area for Chancers: 'The Mistakes' :wink:

OK, well I have been in touch with Tony Cartwright (just back off a cruise :sigh:) and will be meeting him soon, so perhaps he can shed some light on these oddities.


Thats it :!:  There's your answer to spirals going in the opposite direction!
Obviously made by members of Chance Glass as they crossed the Equator 8)  :lol:
Anne E.B


Offline Frank

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Head in a Swirl, by any Chance?
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2006, 06:36:21 PM »
Transfer would be one sided, but the negative could be reversed for a batch. I am inclined to suspect it was deliberate though.
Frank A.
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