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Author Topic: paul ysart sulphide paperweight info  (Read 1832 times)

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Offline boxed

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paul ysart sulphide paperweight info
« on: January 18, 2015, 07:38:53 PM »
Hi guys
im trying to find images on paul ysart "sulphade" paperweights
ive only seen one from Kev H's  ysart site, has anyone got any images they can share or
a site a can visit to see some different images and discriptions of them please :)
Regards
(Boxed)
Joe

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Offline Frank

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Re: paul ysart sulphade paperweight info
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2015, 03:24:25 PM »
Six are shown in Hall's Scottish Paperweights and four in Mahoney's Paul Ysart book. Going by what has been written about them they were experimental and the few known probably made in the 1920s.

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Re: paul ysart sulphade paperweight info
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2015, 07:23:59 PM »
Hi frank
thanks for pointing me in the right direction ,also there was a paul ysart paperweight on ebay and in a public auction that the guys on here all agreed was a fake which made me ask do all the fake paul ysart weights have py canes as all of the ones ive seen described as fake all have the py cane in common?
Cheers
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Offline KevinH

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Re: paul ysart sulphade paperweight info
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2015, 02:03:03 PM »
Sorry for not responding to this earlier.

Joe said:
Quote
ive only seen one from Kev H's  ysart site
My personal web pages disappeared a couple years ago (courtesy of BT policy on member web space) and for various reasons I have not got around to doing anything about it. However, for general info, my one example of a PY sulphide can be seen in my article (written 1999) in Angela Bowey's Glass Museum site.

Frank said:
Quote
... probably made in the 1920s]probably made in the 1920s
Did you mean 1930s Frank?

Even if some of the sulphide weights may have been experimental in, say, the late 1920s, one design - George VI & Elizabeth - is definitely no earlier than 1936.

A certain good reference book on Ysart Glass, states: "Paul has dated a particular weight, large and rough, as one of his earliest surviving examples made in 1932". My view has always been that the sulphide weights were most likely to have been developed after Paul had made his first weights, suggesting 1930s as the earliest period.

Another piece of evidence that has caused some confusion is an article in the 1983 PCA Bullletin by John Morley. It discusses a "Woman's Head" sulphide weight (of which my own example may be one of the group mentioned). It states that it was one of the first weights to use a PY cane [my wording] and was "made in 1946 or 1947". The information about the date of the first use of the "PY" cane is backed up by the original letter to John Morley from Paul Ysart, which was recently sold on eBay. However, Paul's dating of that weight, or of the use of the "py" cane, is incorrect since two weights signed with a PY cane were illustrated in the 1940 edition of "Old Glass Paperweights" by Evangeline Bergstrom. Given the lead time required for a) acquisition of the weights and b) publication, the illustrated "signed py" weights must have been made no later than the late 1930s.

My info above does not rule out the (late) 1920s as a possible date for Paul's earliest weights but I feel that the first sulphide weights, especially those with well-set millefiori decoration, would more likely have been from the 1930s period.
KevinH

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Offline boxed

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Re: paul ysart sulphade paperweight info
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2015, 06:23:19 PM »
Hi kevin
regards pauls weights in general when it comes to fakes is it just py cane ones that were copied or the unsigned weights also?
 another thing this might sound stupid- but when fake py canes are described as DROPPED Y  does it mean the structure or that its below
the p its probably a daft question but i wasnt sure what it was meaning,the reason im asking is ive bought one i think could be a paul ysart sulphade weight recently online that should be delivered in a couple of days which i will upload some images to get a verdict as i have my doubts ???
thanks
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Offline KevinH

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Re: paul ysart sulphade paperweight info
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2015, 09:34:07 PM »
Quote
... is it just py cane ones that were copied or the unsigned weights also?
My understanding is that it was the designs that were copied, for which Paul included a PY cane in many examples but not in others of the same design.

However, I have seem some designs in copies for which I have not yet seen an equivalent genuine Paul Ysart example - usually geometric millefiori patterns.

Quote
DROPPED Y
A good example of the "dropped Y" form is shown at the top left of Frank's information in the web page here. The "Y" is clearly set lower than the "P" - but this was not always clear in all weights and possibly was only used in the initial batch of copies.

The other type of "py" cane, with smaller letters and more even setting can be seen in another of Frank's pages - see here.

Some years passed before it was noticed by collectors that a more positive, and apparently uniform clue to a "py" cane's status, is that the copies use two colours, the "p" is yellow / orange and the "y" is pink. This colouring is not known in genuine Paul Ysart weights. However, again, it is not always visually clear without using a loupe.

For sulphide weights I have only seen one type among the copies - a Swan. An example is shown in Frank's pages, in the first link I have given above. That particular weight was originally a standard domed example, but, along with a batch of others, was faceted to remove damage. The faceting was done well after the original copies were produced.
KevinH

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Re: paul ysart sulphade paperweight info
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2015, 09:53:45 PM »
Thanks for the insight :) i think i might feel a bit more confident next time i come across a paul ysart weight with a py cane!!!
Cheeers
Joe
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Re: paul ysart sulphade paperweight info
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2015, 01:53:33 PM »
hi guys
these are some images of the paperweight ive not taken the labels off  not sure if i should
any thoughts?
regards
joe
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Offline KevinH

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Re: paul ysart sulphade paperweight info
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2015, 02:39:57 PM »
Looks like PY work to me. Larger images (around 600 pixels) would be good, to see more detail.

Is there a "PY" cane?

The "pear shaped" cane, used twice, is consistent with the work in my signed example. And I think it is the exact same cane. See image below.

It would be interesting to see the finishing of the base without the main Christie's label. Sometimes they just come loose. But light soaking in warm water could be enough to peel it off without damage - and then you could reapply later if you wished, or just retain it as provenance through the sale.
KevinH

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Re: paul ysart sulphade paperweight info
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2015, 03:09:20 PM »
Hi kevin
thanks for reply  the two pear shaped canes are very much the same  but no py cane regards pontil i have tried to removed the labels as you suggested with no luck but did remove enough to see its a rough pontil mark- fingers crossed its a genuine py :) ive resized to 600 pixels
best wishes
joe
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