Author Topic: The joys of paperweight collecting, and A MESSAGE FOR MAKERS  (Read 10307 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline wrightoutlook

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 359
getting closer
« Reply #30 on: July 04, 2006, 01:16:58 AM »
I have just sent an email to the seller asking some questions about why he/she knows about a paperweight Presidential assassination series, which I have never read about anywhere, ever. The seller has a long detailed description about such a series in the McKinley copy on eBay.

Of course, it does make sense. And, if there really is an assassination series, then I guess my "male" sulphide is Garfield and not Grant, who didn't die in office. But then, if there is an Eisenhower sulphide, it makes no sense, since he wasn't assassinated. But if no Ike, why is there a Mamie? If no Ike and no Mamie, then is it Mrs. Bergstrom?

And interestingly, again, the seller's weight has a number (the year 1971) hot stamped along with the words St. Clair. Mine has no year number, jsut St. Clair. But it does have the scratched 341, out of how many were made, which is another question entirely.


Offline wrightoutlook

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 359
IT'S GARFIELD.
« Reply #31 on: July 04, 2006, 12:58:36 PM »
It's important to note that the two paperweights being offered are by TWO DIFFERENT SELLERS, and that the seller with the McKinley paperweight is the smart one. I received a superb email signed by him and his wife. The weight is 7423892613 on eBay.

Basically, they wrote that they were not aware of any written (published) reference to the assassination weight series. Living in Indiana (St. Clair was in Elwood), they've had many conversations with collectors about these weights. Many collectors they know have put together, or are in the process of putting together a set of all four assassination weights. In fact, collectors can put together larger sets, by collecting weights of each assassinated president, with a number of different background colors.  The last conversation the eBay seller had about these weights was with a group of collectors at a St. Clair specialty auction in Alexandria, Indiana.

Over 200 pieces of St. Clair glass were offered. There was much discussion at the auction about the assassination series and revolved around how many different background colors were used in the making of these weights. There was no consensus. There was also a Richard Nixon and George McGovern St. Clair Sulphide "series" of weights, which were part of a 1972 Presidential Campaign series, that only contained the two cameo weights. The backgrounds were all red, white and blue "confetti" glass.  

For the record, the four assassinated presidents are Abraham Lincoln, James Garfield, William McKinley, and John F. Kennedy. The series contained four different sulphide weights.

Therefore, I am now convinced my "male" sulphide is of James Garfield.


Offline wrightoutlook

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 359
FURTHER CONFIRMATION - GARFIELD AND MAMIE
« Reply #32 on: July 04, 2006, 05:01:36 PM »
I received a second email from the seller who confirmed that the "male" sulphide is James Garfield and noted that the four assassinated presidents paperweights pay tribute to: Abraham Lincoln - who was assassinated by John Wilkes Booth; James Garfield - who assassinated by Charles J. Guiteau; William McKinley - who was assassinated by Leon F. Czolgosz; and John F. Kennedy - who was assassinated by Lee Harvey Oswald.

He also wrote that "as for Ike and Mamie, they, too, were produced in 1972.  We see Ike relatively often, but Mamie is very rare.  The only other female 'sulphide' by St. Clair of which we're aware is Betsy Ross.  That Ross weight isn't a cameo, but almost a cartoon or 'precious moments' type figurine of Betsy sewing the American flag. It too is rare, but not as rare as Mamie in our experience."
 
Seller also wrote that "as someone who shares your passion for glass (especially paperweights) I applaud your efforts at scholarship.  There are many areas of this hobby which are inadequately documented, and a great deal of information which has been (and continues to be) lost, as more and more of America's great glass factories disappear, with very little fanfare or concern from the public."

Frankly, this seller has offered more information than Joe Rice decided to convey. There really must have been bad blood in that family or just so much sadness at the passing of the St. Clairs (Joe, Bob, and Maude) in the 1980s that discussing the company and the family is just too difficult.

And, as I wrote before, perhaps he is writing a book. Now, that would be nice.

Anyway, it's good to have confirmation about whom the two sulphides depict. And it's nice to know the Mamie is rare. On eBay right now are McKinley and Garfield sulphides as noted in other posts. And, of course, the importance of glassmakers signing and, hopefully, dating their works can't be stressed more strongly.


Offline Liz

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 46
The joys of paperweight collecting, and A MESSAGE FOR MAKERS
« Reply #33 on: July 04, 2006, 11:35:03 PM »
:shock:  Wow....very interesting information provided by the seller!! Isn't it wonderful when you come across a seller with a wealth of information that enjoys sharing his/her knowledge....they are the ones that make Ebaying (or buying in general) fun!

Much like so many of you on this board...without your willingness to share your very valuable expertise, we beginners would be hard-pressed to gain the insight you provide. While there are alot of books on paperweights, not to mention some fanatastic websites, the nitty-gritty, nuts-and-bolts questions are rarely answered in print. You are appreciated more than a simple thank you and a cute smiley will ever convey! :wink:

I can't believe I passed on the recent Betsy Ross  :x  I knew I should have bought it !! Grrrrrrrr...oh well, hopefully another, RARE , inexpensive, mint, Betsy will show up on EBay.!!

Wrightoutlook, thanks for a great thread, it has been most enjoyable!

Happy 4th everyone!!
Liz
Liz


Offline m1asmithw8s

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 214
  • Gender: Male
    • http://s127.photobucket.com/albums/p158/m1asmith/
The joys of paperweight collecting, and A MESSAGE FOR MAKERS
« Reply #34 on: July 06, 2006, 03:32:37 PM »
I recently acquired an inexpensive Betsy Ross sewing the Flag, hot stamped Maude & Bob St. Clair 1976, sulphide on ebay.
These used to sell for over 400 USD.
Here's a tiny pic image as there is a disc space problem with Glass Querries.


http://tinypic.com/view/?pic=1z4uzxx

Offline Anne

  • GMB Tech Support Manager & "Board (never bored) Dame"
  • Global Moderator
  • Members
  • *
  • Posts: 11230
  • Gender: Female
  • I has a stick to poke the server with yes!
    • Glass trinket sets
    • Cumbria England
    • ALAVNA Vintage & Collectable Glass
The joys of paperweight collecting, and A MESSAGE FOR MAKERS
« Reply #35 on: July 06, 2006, 09:01:35 PM »
Quote from: "m1asmithw8s"

there is a disc space problem with Glass Querries.
http://tinypic.com/view/?pic=1z4uzxx


What sort of problem Mark - there's nothing showing up as a problem. If you try and upload an image larger than 200kb it won't let you as that's the max file size permitted in the gallery.

Offline Anne

  • GMB Tech Support Manager & "Board (never bored) Dame"
  • Global Moderator
  • Members
  • *
  • Posts: 11230
  • Gender: Female
  • I has a stick to poke the server with yes!
    • Glass trinket sets
    • Cumbria England
    • ALAVNA Vintage & Collectable Glass
The joys of paperweight collecting, and A MESSAGE FOR MAKERS
« Reply #36 on: July 06, 2006, 09:18:01 PM »
Sussed it Mark - quota had been reset to default... weird as  there's only me does the config and I'd not changed it. I've now disabled the quota altogether. If the problem recurs please give me a heads up and I'll poke the server with a sharp stick.

Offline wrightoutlook

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 359
contribution
« Reply #37 on: July 06, 2006, 11:04:43 PM »
I LOVE THE BETSY ROSS PAPERWEIGHT. I WANT ONE.

Are these figurines - the kewpie shown in the other "Adorable Kewpie" thread, the Betsy Ross herein - bisque? Can bisque take the heat of glassmaking and the annealling cooling procedure? If it's not a bisque figurine under glass, what is it? Is it glass? Is it something a bit similar to the standard sulphide/cameo incrustation? I love that weight.

What I'd like is for a few members of MidWestern Collectors in the U.S. to start a website or write a book about St. Clair and other midWest glassmakers like Gentile and Davis and others.

I think we can beat ourselves in the head with a tin can for a century before Joe Rice decides to help out and understands the importance of his role with St. Clair and the need for him to be forthcoming with information.

Offline Anne

  • GMB Tech Support Manager & "Board (never bored) Dame"
  • Global Moderator
  • Members
  • *
  • Posts: 11230
  • Gender: Female
  • I has a stick to poke the server with yes!
    • Glass trinket sets
    • Cumbria England
    • ALAVNA Vintage & Collectable Glass
The joys of paperweight collecting, and A MESSAGE FOR MAKERS
« Reply #38 on: July 07, 2006, 12:08:00 AM »
There is a James Garfield sulphide by Joe St Clair iillustrated on the Verre d'Art website here:
http://verredart.atspace.com/SULF.html  last to the bottom of the page. HTH

Offline Frank

  • Author
  • Members
  • ***
  • Posts: 9389
  • Gender: Male
    • Glass history
    • Gateway
The joys of paperweight collecting, and A MESSAGE FOR MAKERS
« Reply #39 on: July 07, 2006, 07:57:40 AM »
Looks very similar but not quite the same, or is that just camera angle and lighting?
Frank A.
Please help preserve glass web-sites for posterity by donating to The Glass Study Association a non-profit organisation.
Scotland's Glass - Ysart Glass
Glass Zoo - Glass Study.COM
Commercial Czech

 

This Website is provided by Angela Bowey, PO Box 113, Paihia 0247, New Zealand


This Website is provided by Angela Bowey, PO Box 113, Paihia 0247, New Zealand