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Author Topic: victorian scramble paperweight ????  (Read 1951 times)

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Offline rocco

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Re: victorian scramble paperweight ????
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2015, 12:48:49 PM »
Thank you Alan.
I do agree that image processing might lead to brighter colours in a photograph.
But I  don't see a big difference in the single colours of the knobbed paperweight to those in some antique weights, just the overall impression seems more colourful, maybe due to the layout.

Kevin's lovely old Venetian paperweight does show some similar colours, too, particularly the bright teal canes >> http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,56842.msg322320.html#msg322320

Brackel says in his book that the classic production period of paperweights in Venice stopped around 1870.
So I would be interested when these (brighter coloured yet still antique looking) weights were made...

Michael

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Offline Grady

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Re: victorian scramble paperweight ????
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2015, 02:57:13 PM »
Thank you all for your comments and opinions. I wonder if it would help if i added a few more pictures taken indoors (to avoid the "brightness" of the originals and a clearer view of the base ?

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Offline glassobsessed

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Re: victorian scramble paperweight ????
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2015, 08:22:02 PM »
That would be useful. When you look closely can you see any specks or lumps of ash in the glass?

I have had three Murano weights through my hands that I felt had a bit of age, two I assumed late 19thC and the other early 20thC. Adding them here for reference, hopefully they could be useful.

More photos of the first weight here: http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,55522.0.html

Weights one and two have snapped marks, uneven domes and lumps of ash

The third weight is small at around 3 or 4 cm in diameter, ground pontil mark, the flower cane is found in vases made by Fratell Toso circa 1910.

John

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Offline glassobsessed

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Re: victorian scramble paperweight ????
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2015, 10:37:36 PM »
More canes circa 1910, jug with satin finish, plenty of colour on show.

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Offline rocco

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Re: victorian scramble paperweight ????
« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2015, 03:48:09 PM »
Thanks John for providing some pics for comparison!

Michael

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Offline Grady

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Re: victorian scramble paperweight ????
« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2015, 03:15:49 PM »
Hi glass obsessed and other interested members, Thank you again for your help. Firstly, I have looked again at the paperweight and there are a number of areas that show black "specks" which could be ash. These are within the glass not on the outside plus many tiny bubbles. I have also looked again at the base and it is not flat/polished as described by tropdevin. It is slightly concave in the centre leading to a rough "belly button" at the very centre. I have tried to capture these points in a few photographs which I have included below in the hope that it helps to clarify or inform the discussion.

Thank you again
Grady 

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Offline glassobsessed

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Re: victorian scramble paperweight ????
« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2015, 07:36:28 PM »
Thanks the images are good. If I had bought it I reckon I would be thinking late C19 but it is not an informed opinion. I have no literature covering this topic and paperweights as a whole I know little about. I guess the possibility of early C20 needs to be left open too.

What is noticeable is that these (likely) older weights are quite different to the weights typically found from the 1950s onwards (shape, base finish etc).

What I take to be the fine particle size and bright colour of the aventurine (coppery stuff) in yours is interesting too.

John

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Offline KevinH

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Re: victorian scramble paperweight ????
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2015, 11:26:36 PM »
I think this is a very interesting thread. So much so that I have taken time to consider my own comments and current thoughts. I have also prepared photos of elements of my weight. My (lengthy) comments on this will be added soon as another post.
KevinH

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Offline KevinH

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Re: victorian scramble paperweight ????
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2015, 11:57:49 PM »
To clarify my comment about Grady’s item being “too bright to be 19th century” perhaps I should have said “too white”? But in fact it was both the extensive white parts and also the amount of clear glass that struck me as different to other 19th century / early 20th century Venetian weights I have seen. But I have not seen very many!

Regarding the “brightness of colours” and various photographic effects, I agree, on a general basis, with Alan’s points as demonstrated by his three sample photos of the same Bigaglia weight.

Also, with respect to my own “later 19th century” weight (as linked to by Michael in Reply 10), my photos were taken with flash, thus enhancing the brightness. And I also use some degree of image sharpening and a touch of added contrast.

However, what I see in my weight when viewed in ordinary room lighting or daylight, is not the apparent brightness of the colours, but how closely set all the internal elements are and how, overall, it has a rather dull look from any distance other than close up. I liken the effect to my collection of Paul Ysart weights, where, from a distance the 1960s / 70s items clearly stand out as being “brighter” than the pre-1960s ones even though there are bright colours in even the dullest of the PY weights.

Having said all that, I have studied my Venetian weight carefully and I now agree that the colours, and the aventurine, are much like those in the Grady’s item. Maybe some colours could be said to be an exact match. To assist with this, I have produced a set of photos showing the colours and basic elements within my weight. The photos have  been taken with a “macro lens” and no flash. This means the colours will not be brightened by flash, but because they are close-up images, they will show the colours without appearing to be “dull” as they do from a more distant view.

In order to keep things tidy, my new photos have been added to the thread that Michael linked to, that is: "Old Murano Paperweight – ID Help Please". The photos start at: Reply 18

By viewing this current thread and my posts of the other thread in separate windows, side by side comparisons can easily be made.

So, what is my opinion now? Well, I think my weight and Grady’s item are very likely from the same maker. Either that, or the same / similar canes were used throughout a number of years. It is the closeness, or not, of the internal elements that makes a clear difference to the visual impact, and also the apparent size of the elements in Grady’s item as opposed to the much smaller parts of mine.

When were these items made? I don’t know, but I still tend to think “later 19th century / early 20th century” rather than 1850s or earlier.
KevinH

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Offline tropdevin

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Re: victorian scramble paperweight ????
« Reply #19 on: August 27, 2015, 05:23:22 AM »
***

Hi.  Here are a couple of images of a Venetian scramble piece I used to own.  The glass is rather dark, and the colours muted.  Given the simplicity and absence of millefiori, I considered it to be later than the mid 19th century, when Bigaglia was making his paperweights - that is to say, late 19th century.  Hence my feeling that the similar designs with better glass and brighter colours were made in the early 20th century.  I don't think my piece was made in the late 18th or early 19th century, which would be an alternative explanation of the differences, but perhaps I am wrong?

Alan
Alan  (The Paperweight People  http://www.pwts.co.uk)

"There are two rules for ultimate success in life. Number 1: Never tell everything you know."

The comments in this posting reflect the opinion of the author, Alan Thornton, and not that of the owners, administrators or moderators of this board. Comments are copyright Alan Thornton.

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