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Author Topic: ' Ndina ' signature for Mdina .... two examples.....  (Read 2141 times)

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Offline chopin-liszt

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Re: ' Ndina ' signature for Mdina .... two examples.....
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2015, 08:25:45 PM »
 :)
That is a completely different red and a completely different sort of red. Bear with me while I explain. ::) :)

At both Mdina and MDG, brown glass was produced by the addition of silver nitrate to red glass, (in a similar way to the yellows and greens being produced by the addition of silver chloride to clear and blue glass.
Silver nitrate does not, as far as I know, melt in the way silver chloride does.

It's a gritty black powder that burns everything it comes into contact with, and it soaks up water from the air. I still have an old lab coat I kept for using silver nitrate exclusively - it's full of tiny holes and burnt brown spots.  ;D
Both silver salts are very expensive. (the chloride or the nitrate are called salts in chemistry.)
with Mdina - I do not think silver nitrate or silver chloride were used in the more mass production sorts of things. They were, of course, used in the paperweights which are in the Eathtones pattern.


In the boat thing you're showing there, it is a bought-in standard red enamel that has been used, not the reds that you see along with the browns in the streaky bits of Earthtones from both factories.

It's not a red that is left behind after its "browning" with silver.
Cheers, Sue (M)

"Cherish those that seek the truth;
 Beware of them who find it."
Grimm.

Offline Baked_Beans

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Re: ' Ndina ' signature for Mdina .... two examples.....
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2015, 09:43:54 PM »
Ahh ! So the boat was a complete red-herring / - boat  ::)  I knew it was a faux pas....and now I'm certain it was  ;D !!

So basically then , the early paperweight, featured above, has red streaks as a by-product of the reaction of silver chloride (or nitrate or both) with heat and nothing else. There is also a  large (rain) cloud of white in there (towards the surface) another by-product of a silver salt reaction ; all the blue has broken up into a lot of small, separate  patches with clear in between....looks like a whole load of large , spherical , blue frit !

Thanks so much for explaining all of this ....it's a huge help in trying to understand what is going on with these pieces .

Incidentally , I don't think the boat has any amber in it !! Having had another look  , it seems that it is only red enamel ! The amber is just a play with the light...as is the green in the photo of the boat above  :o !

Thanks so much !

Cheers, Mike



 
Mike

Offline Baked_Beans

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Re: ' Ndina ' signature for Mdina .... two examples.....
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2015, 10:52:21 PM »
P.S.  I think the paperweight's unique appearance might be a result of over heating .... ::)   
Mike

Offline chopin-liszt

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Re: ' Ndina ' signature for Mdina .... two examples.....
« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2015, 11:58:18 AM »
I've just re-read my post - I had got my words in a tangle while editing.  :-[
I wrote;
"with Mdina - I do not think silver nitrate or silver chloride were used in the more mass production sorts of things. "
It was meant to be;
"At MDG, I do not think silver nitrate or silver chloride were used in the more mass production sorts of things."

And (surprisiingly) it was red glass that was turned into brown with the use of the salts - any reds seen are the unaltered bits. Brown was desirable in those days. The reds are not really any sort of by-product. ;D
Cheers, Sue (M)

"Cherish those that seek the truth;
 Beware of them who find it."
Grimm.

Offline Baked_Beans

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Re: ' Ndina ' signature for Mdina .... two examples.....
« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2015, 09:35:17 PM »
Thanks Sue,

Well , I really got hold of the wrong end of the stick there then !.....  ;)

Just to clarify then...the red in the Mdina paperweight  is the same thing which is going on in the MDG boat ashtray ? The red streakiness does look very similar in both.

Sorry to labour the point and I realise it's not comparing like with like  ::) ....It's due to my lack of similar Mdina examples.

Ta, Mike
Mike

Offline Baked_Beans

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Re: ' Ndina ' signature for Mdina .... two examples.....
« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2015, 12:01:38 AM »
P.S.  Here is a MDG ( Malta Decorative Glass ) paperweight , Earthtones pattern  , red with added silver salts....as Sue mentioned above , last photo with flash...

There is some more here about this weight........

http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,61158.0.html



Mike

Offline Baked_Beans

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Re: ' Ndina ' signature for Mdina .... two examples.....
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2015, 12:30:51 AM »
The red seen in the MDG boat ashtay is very, very thin , it spirals through the clear body like a wispy cloud , so does the turquoise blue colour. Both incredibly thin layers of colour. Both the red and the blue are bulk-standard glass colours used at MDG seen in blown fish, shells and solid animals (in the blue colour only so far for the animals...as far as I know  ). My thoughts are that the thin red (red/orange...it's so thin) was the same coloured glass that was used in the MDG paperweight (shown above) and similar thin layers of red coloured glass were also used in making the Mdina paperweight (as above).

I don't understand what the other red coloured glass can be...if it is not this standard colour ?  (I do realise the boat hasn't had any silver salt treatment ! ).

I would just like to get a grasp of how these items were made at both factories and to know  if I'm missing a vital point here (i.e. being a numpty ! ) ?  ;)

Cheers, Mike     :D







Mike

Offline Baked_Beans

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Re: ' Ndina ' signature for Mdina .... two examples.....
« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2015, 08:21:02 AM »
Ooops, I think I've grasped it now, the red is in the form of a powdered glass enamel (in the MDG paperweight above and the Mdina one)...I think  ::)

I need to go on a glassblowing course !

This paperweight/doorstop on mine shows a combination of powdered glass enamel and frit .......

http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,60416.0.html

Cheers, Mike
Mike

Offline chopin-liszt

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Re: ' Ndina ' signature for Mdina .... two examples.....
« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2015, 02:26:49 PM »
I suspect I'm still in a tangle. Sorry, Mike. It's like lefts and rights - two things. I can only deal with three things, one being the mid point, giving me a reference to the others. If it's just one or the other, I can't remember which is which.

I now realise the red used in the thin layer in the boat might be the same red as was altered with silver nitrate.

I suspect I have said otherwise. My brain isn't doing well just now. I should just shut up! :-[
Cheers, Sue (M)

"Cherish those that seek the truth;
 Beware of them who find it."
Grimm.

Offline Baked_Beans

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Re: ' Ndina ' signature for Mdina .... two examples.....
« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2015, 10:18:44 PM »
Don't stop (please  !!!)  :D ....I find it all very fascinating...it's my fault for mixing in so many different variables into one confusing thread  ::)

I was trying to get an approximate sort of date for 'Ndina' as a style of handwriting . I do think the first letter is a definite N and not an M.

I noticed that there were similarities with the red in the Mdina paperweight as seen in the MDG boat and the MDG paperweight and wanted to explore this general feature / technique ...for what it is worth.

Were powdered glass enamels used at Mdina/MDG during the 1970's ? Or is it a more recent thing....I had convinced myself that I was on to something   :-X   ?

I do have a Mdina earthtones paperweight which has a lovely brown onyx / marbled look and there is plenty of red streakiness  in there  :)

Ta 'n' thanks, Mike   ;)   
Mike

 

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