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Author Topic: 18th century gilded engraved monogrammed miniature egg Russian - help please  (Read 6052 times)

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Offline flying free

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no, I didn't think they did.

I wonder what they are supposed to be then?
I've done quite a bit of searching and can't find any relevant birds with a crest with that longer neck - they are crested pigeon/dove look alikes aren't they in terms of shape?
The crested birds I've found tend to have short squat necks.
Also there is a deliberate ring engraved around their necks  ???

Perhaps they aren't relevant but I am pretty sure this is Russian and 18th century.  So have been searching birds in Russia.
m

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sorry,just had to look up what I found last night quickly - I'd come up with a crested plover or crested lapwing??
crested Northern Lapwing here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_lapwing

m

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if you google Russian gzhel bird then many folk art stylised Russian bird depictions come up and they have three plumes as a crest (most of them - the odd one doesn't have any and some have a further long curled ''headdress').
Mind you I don't know how far back that folk style of depiction/decoration goes. 
m

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I'd forgotten that I'd found this link.

This is a bird enamelled and gilded on a blue opaline beaker - Russian, in the Hermitage Museum, dated c.1830 ish iirc.
If you click on the arrows on the bottom right hand corner the picture enlarges.  You can then press the + button on the top right hand corner to see further enlargements which show the details. 

The birds have little crests as the birds on my egg :)
http://www.hermitagemuseum.org/wps/portal/hermitage/digital-collection/08.+Applied+Arts/918344/?lng=en

Details from Museum reference:
Russia, 1830-1840s

Title:
Glass with the Depiction of Birds, and Vases with Flowers and Fruits
Place of creation:Russia

Date:1830-1840s
Material:light-blue glass
Technique:blowing, painted in gold
Dimensions:13,2x8,2x8,2 cm
Inventory Number:
ЭРС-909

Happy New Year :)

m

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this is not related at all but I thought it was lovely so am posting it:
it's 320 years old  :o  engraved hexagonal bottle dated 1694
http://ces.mkcr.cz/en/img/1/4/3/p72240.jpg

description says
'Šestiboká láhev z čirého skla se zátkou, zdobená rytým matovaným vegetabilním dekorem, nápis: 'F. P. F. W. O. P. 1694'; sklárna Pustá Rybná, 1694, inv. č.: 10A-572.'

Hexagonal bottle of clear glass with stopper , decorated with an engraved matt vegetal decoration , the inscription : ' F. F. W. P. O. P. 1694 ' ; glassworks desolate Rybná , 1694, inv. no .: 10A -572
(from -Collection of Regional Museum in Litomyšl)

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I think they are crested ringneck doves or something very similar (assuming they were around 200 years ago as doves have been bred for captivity of thousands of year as I read)
http://www.dovepage.com/species/domestic/Ringneck/colors/crested.jpg

and pursuing my theory of the egg being Russian I came across this book on my searches:
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=43vVAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA48&lpg=PA48&dq=do+they+keep+birds+in+cages+in+russia&source=bl&ots=_WAkySrjXD&sig=4xnqT6GMzVvv0XEn2Zv0MK31fkM&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjbvqXK3M_LAhWHCBoKHesjAHsQ6AEIMzAF#v=onepage&q=do%20they%20keep%20birds%20in%20cages%20in%20russia&f=false

Russia and the Russians, in 1842
By Johann Georg Kohl

On page 48 of the book describes the keeping or using of animals and birds in Russia at that time and has a description of dove keeping.  I've photographed the page

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The book goes into detail in small sections on the glass in Russia during 1842 and earlier.
There are a number of references.
Firstly, discussing the quality of the 'earlier' looking glass mirrors in the Taurian Palace and remarking on the poor quality and waves in the mirrors when seen close up. It refers to those as dating' from the old times of Petersburg glass manufacture'. Then again later in the book  where he comments that there has been replacement looking glass put in to the palace and discusses again the poor quality of the original glass but goes on to remark on the very good quality of the new replacement glass in comparison to the original mirrors still left in there 'and,on comparing them with more recent productions, you see what advances have since been made.'

Secondly the book talks in some detail about the crystal eggs produced in the imperial (sic) manufactury in presumably 1842 when the book was written.

There is a description of glass easter eggs saying they are given by people to each other at Easter and describing them as ‘a peculiar interest’ and ‘the many thousand crystal eggs of all colours, polished to the highest degree that art can attain, with which the Russians present one another at Easter.’
It describes the ‘establishment for grinding glass’ as ‘perhaps the largest of the kind in the world’ as says there were no fewer than 300 people working in it. (note, when he talks about the establishment for grinding glass I believe he is referring to the number of people in the grinding department alone within the Imperial Manufactory, not number of people in the whole factory)

Further on he gives another description of the glass eggs being decorated engraved with flowers and figures and some of them being made for the Imperial family to give to grandees. It says the grandees often received a number of these eggs so gave them away again and passed them onto others at  succeeding easters.

Directly under these paragraphs and descriptions of the glass eggs, he  mentions very briefly the porcelain eggs and how they are not to be outdone by the glass eggs and are painted and decorated and hung with ribbon.  He notes specifically here that  anyone can buy them.
That's it.  No more on the porcelain eggs, much more descriptive on the glass eggs interestingly. 



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Decanter dated c.1740 with similarly engraved tulips on
https://scottishantiques.com/georgian-table-glass/decanters-carafes/georgiandecanter

see image link here for those on the egg
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=61429.0;attach=183321;image

when comparing just a note to say the tulip on the egg is tiny and engraved over the pontil mark, whereas the tulips on the decanter appear to be somewhere in the region of  1 3/4" tall.  The whole egg is less than 2 1/2" tall.




On the trellis obelisk:

No idea as to the authenticity of the information in this article from 2014 in the Florida Times-Union 27 June 2014
http://jacksonville.com/homes/2014-06-27/story/obelisks-are-ancient-garden-ornament-plenty-modern-style
 but an extract
says:
'...Garden obelisks were perhaps at the height of their popularity in the 17th century, when Andre Le Notre, the great landscape architect of the palace of Versailles, set a pair of them at the gates to the French king’s extravagant country estate. Within the gates, topiary obelisks held strategic echoing positions in the artful parterres. In the 17th and 18th centuries, trellis-work obelisks were used extensively in clipped and controlled Dutch gardens. Garden historians describe obelisks as “practically ubiquitous” in 18th-century English and Irish gardens, where stone obelisks framed the views. They were often engraved with commemorative inscriptions.'

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So possibly now is the time to embarrass myself and put forward my thoughts to be shot down in flames  ;D

The monogrammed script M is the same as the monogram for Maria Feodorovna who was married to Paul of Russia.

On a pediment on the Pavlosk Palace there is a combined monogram for Paul and Maria Feodorovna that is exactly the same M.
https://i1.wp.com/img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/4516/84064482.159/0_9b288_9c4c63b4_orig.jpg?ssl=1

see on the left here also the monogram cypher for Maria Feodorovna and also on the right

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ZSuIE8FiBRE/TpOyz7EiNSI/AAAAAAAAAbg/XlXeU1W3qOM/s1600/6638e8208dfft.jpg

'Diamond imperial cyphers of the Empress Maria Feodorovna, consort of Paul I (left),
the Empress Elizabeth Alexeievna, consort of Alexander I, in combination with the monogram of the Dowager Empress Maria Feodorovna (right), and the Empress Maria Feodorovna, consort of Alexander III (center)'

and also here
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-CCxiz_plQQs/TpO1E8F8W5I/AAAAAAAAAb4/54iUv41flPA/s1600/afghfksah35.jpg
source: http://arrayedingold.blogspot.co.uk/2011_10_01_archive.html



The palace also had trellis work on it - this is a recent photograph:
http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-the-palace-of-tsar-pavel-paul-i-in-pavlovsk-saint-petersburg-russia-20857139.html

and she was very into horticulture and flowers with a huge knowledge apparently
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Feodorovna_(Sophie_Dorothea_of_W%C3%BCrttemberg)


I'm aware this is a sounding a little bit farfetched,however I thought it 'interesting' that finding an engraved egg is so rare and that it happened to have the initials MF on it.


I don't know how far from the truth I am with this (possibly a very long way  ;D ) and there is a phrase for making evidence fit your ideas (can't remember it at the moment) but ...  - confirmation bias is the phrase I'm looking for ...




On the other hand the design of the basket and the birds has some similarities with French handpainted opaline beakers dating to the early 1800s so it might be French (see Leon Darnis Baguiers et Verre a Boire pp115 for example).  However none of the birds I can see in there have crests.

But then, Paul and Maria Feodorovna did a European tour taking in France in 1781
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Feodorovna_(Sophie_Dorothea_of_W%C3%BCrttemberg)





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Offline Paul S.

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interesting piece, although regret I'm not remotely able to help with provenance or attribution.           Would seem you're getting almost nil useful feedback here which understandable since subject must surely be of very limited knowledge on the GMB - which rather sad bearing in mind all the time you've taken to research.

If there is an outside chance of the high end provenance you are suggesting, why don't you send some pix to the ceramics & glass dept. at the V. & A.  -  they are generally very good. :)      I very much doubt that you'll progress this one any further here.

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