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Author Topic: Mdina paper labels ...slight differences in design .  (Read 2886 times)

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Offline Baked_Beans

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Mdina paper labels ...slight differences in design .
« on: February 24, 2016, 07:20:35 AM »
Apologies if this topic has been discussed before, it's just that recently I've noticed a subtle difference in the design of Mdina paper labels .

Don't wish to send everyone to sleep by discussing this but there are two main types of paper label which both have the same dimensions...  1 cm wide and 1.6 cm long .

The earlier of the two labels is the second one seen below and to the left in the photo of the two labels together.

The earlier label is based on Michael Harris's original design seen on page 18 of Mark Hill's book. Much thinner lines on the Maltese cross . The cross itself is set lower down in the castle tower and the words Mdina Glass are set much closer to the base of the tower than the later example.

The later label has a thicker more pronounced Maltese cross , the top of which extends much higher up in the tower. The words Mdina Glass are spaced further away from the base of the tower.

This isn't just a print setting error. It's a subtle change in the design of the label.

If you look at examples on ebay you can see many labels of the later design. The earlier label is always seen on early looking pieces with early looking signatures.

Anyway, it would be very useful to get the exact date when this label design change took place as it would help in dating Mdina glass in general .

I have also seen paper labels of the earlier design with the word Malta added below Mdina Glass . So there are probably more to be found but just to get the date on this change would be good .

Thanks for looking and reading down this far ....Cheers Mike  :D
Mike

Offline Baked_Beans

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Re: Mdina paper labels ...slight differences in design .
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2016, 08:25:41 AM »
Here's an ebay listing showing the label with the word Malta added... looks later that the one on the bird but seems to revert back to the thinner cross . The lettering is also larger .

http://www.ebay.de/itm/MDINA-GLASS-Malta-Paperweight-Briefbeschwerer-Vogel-Glas-M-Harris-/252291528118?hash=item3abdbf35b6:g:3UcAAOSwFqJWngCB
Mike

Offline Lustrousstone

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Re: Mdina paper labels ...slight differences in design .
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2016, 10:24:10 AM »
I don't think you can read too much into historical label details for several reasons:
  • branding wasn't as rigidly controlled in the 70s, 80s and 90s as it is today, certainly not for small companies, so variations would have been normal
    you are talking small jobbing printers so different printer or even print run = label variant. These things weren't based on digital files and digital printing in the same way as they are now
    you can't assume that one batch of labels was used up before another was started or that there was only one batch on the go

Offline chopin-liszt

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Re: Mdina paper labels ...slight differences in design .
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2016, 11:01:38 AM »
I agree completely, Christine.
Things were very random and hotch-potch, they just used what was to hand.
Mdina was written on the base, sometimes.
Items which might have been seconds or which hadn't been fully finished off, were sold anyway if the shop shelves were getting empty.
A label might be stuck on, but it also might not have been.

It was very much a matter of desperately trying to keep the shelves in the shop stocked.
Cheers, Sue (M)
"The really smart people know enough to know that there's too much that they don't know for them to be arrogant about the little they do know."
Prof. Ron Davis OMF

Offline Baked_Beans

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Re: Mdina paper labels ...slight differences in design .
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2016, 11:07:03 AM »
They are valid points you are making Christine.

I doubt that there would be different printers involved , the paper labels are the same size so would have come from the same supplier. You can see variations in where the logo is set within the paper label on both designs .

The earlier of the two labels is seen in Mark Hill's book on page 133 and is described as ' A late 1960's - 1970's Mdina Glass paper label '

I haven't seen any earlier Mdina glass with the 'later' design of label attached (as I have described above ) . I have however seen lots of later Mdina glass with the later design of paper label attached . Cheers, Mike.
Mike

Offline Lustrousstone

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Re: Mdina paper labels ...slight differences in design .
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2016, 12:23:45 PM »
Printers buy ready-made labels in; they only print on them. It's likely the labels all came from the same paper company, as they would have been imported but we don't know how many jobbing printers Malta had.

All I'm saying is that we shouldn't take speculation as fact. We don't truly know whether Mark's label description is fact or an educated guess.

Offline chopin-liszt

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Re: Mdina paper labels ...slight differences in design .
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2016, 12:30:07 PM »
The label on the pwt in the ebay link with Malta underneath is a chevron pattern, which we know was not in production until the mid '70s.

But I've seen what I consider to be "early" paper labels on plenty of the deep purple/black background with the silver chloride loopy trails around it, which is also a later design from the mid-late '70s and into the '80s.
These are often accompanied (on these black and silver bits) with the long rectangular labels with numbers written on them in biro.

Nothing much can really be told about dates from labels.

Plastic ones are from the '90s! You won't find them on early bits. That's about it.
Cheers, Sue (M)
"The really smart people know enough to know that there's too much that they don't know for them to be arrogant about the little they do know."
Prof. Ron Davis OMF

Offline Baked_Beans

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Re: Mdina paper labels ...slight differences in design .
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2016, 12:42:11 PM »
The label with Malta written towards the base looks later than the first two I mentioned above.

I do know about suppliers of paper labels to printers !

All I am saying here is this.....................Show me an early piece of Mdina glass with this later label attached.............. ;D I bet you can't find one  ;)

Mike

Offline chopin-liszt

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Re: Mdina paper labels ...slight differences in design .
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2016, 12:47:47 PM »
I might have to turn the house upside-down to look.  ;D
I've never paid much attention to labels or marks, (apart from looking out for Harris or Dobson scripts, or taking note of the general style of the Mdina mark, if there).
Cheers, Sue (M)
"The really smart people know enough to know that there's too much that they don't know for them to be arrogant about the little they do know."
Prof. Ron Davis OMF

Offline Baked_Beans

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Re: Mdina paper labels ...slight differences in design .
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2016, 01:18:28 PM »
Ha !

Sadly , I think I'm  a closet stamp collector... :'(

I just want to add one final last observation....I promise ! These are only my observations !

The reason I think the paper label on the link to the paperweight above is later than the two I started this thread with is this.....here is a plastic label .....look how it's gone back to looking like the original design . The thinner Maltese cross which is lower down again in the castle tower and the wording is back closer to the base of the tower plus there is the addition of the word Malta. That's why the paperweight example looks close to the design of the plastic one introduced in the 1990's.  8)

Mike

 

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