Author Topic: Wobbly Ysart paperweight ID - help please Kev H!  (Read 3791 times)

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Online tropdevin

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Re: Wobbly Ysart paperweight ID - help please Kev H!
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2008, 09:12:06 PM »
Can we sometimes be too clevere ?
Dave

I fear we are rarely clever enough, any of us....we tend to believe what people tell us, and what authors write, even when there is little or no evidence. "So and so said this in his book, so it must be right...". The more I carry out research into various paperweight related topics, the more I find that the accepted wisdom is based on hearsay and speculation, rather than evidence. That makes me sad: as a doctorate physicist, I am a firm believer in evidence based research, and sound, logical arguments based on facts.  Of course we need ideas, speculation, theories - that is how we make progress - but we should not substitute these for facts.

We need to keep an open mind on many aspects of paperweight production, where we do not have the detailed evidence. Just remember some of the past errors: the existence of Bristol and Nailsea paperweights; the 'London maker named Islington';  'No paperweights ever made in Stourbridge' (Hollister); and the attribution "Antique Whitefriars dated 1848" still appears in the catalogues of reputable dealers.

No - we are certainly not too clever....

Alan
Alan
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Offline Frank

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Re: Wobbly Ysart paperweight ID - help please Kev H!
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2008, 09:44:32 PM »
Well, we do have reasonable evidence that Paul Ysart told Colin Terris about making these badge weights. I would consider that as a reasonably reliable hearsay, but it does not tell us anything about the weight in question.

I also bought one of these a few years ago and at that time they were appearing with great frequency on eBay mostly from Scotland, too great a frequency for PY weights in my opinion. There is a dealer who has over the last 20+ years had made or altered a large number of items to misrepresent them as the work of the Ysart's. He has also sold work of various glassmakers as being Ysart. Miniature 'sample' glassware that were actually made in London, PY fake weights, altered Perthshire Paperweight Tulip lamps to sell as Vasart, ground down Strathearn seals and added a basal ring to pass of as Monart/Vasart, fake book of Monart colour recipes, several sets of Ysart family glass tools, other faked ephemera.

My weight does not seem right for PY compared to others, why would his standards have slipped for these? Other glass he made during the war and before the restart of Monart production did not show and slippage in his standards and by then paperweights were central to his choice of work.

I also find it highly unlikely that there was only one person doing this, during and at the end of the war there would have been economic chaos in many places across Europe and glassmakers needing to buy food. That Belgium has been raised with a stylistically similar example, combined with mentions of Belgium in relation to badge weights in the past, makes it a likely second source. Evidence could be concealed by language.

I would not be surprised if all of the following are true, but none proven.

1. Paul Ysart made some badge weights.
2. Other glassmakers in Europe made badge weights.
3. Somebody made a batch of badge weights in recent years.
Frank A.
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Re: Wobbly Ysart paperweight ID - help please Kev H!
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2008, 05:20:54 AM »
Hi Frank

Your conclusions makes good sense to me.

Alan
Alan
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."  Abraham Lincoln.

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Re: Wobbly Ysart paperweight ID - help please Kev H!
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2008, 05:15:54 PM »
Here is another badge weight - looks like an Ysart style pontil. Don't know why the seller has settled on that date though.

Alan
Alan
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."  Abraham Lincoln.

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Offline alexander

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Re: Wobbly Ysart paperweight ID - help please Kev H!
« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2008, 09:13:46 PM »
I noticed this one too  :)

It looks like it has a serious annealing crack.

Some grinding to the base which is different from the presumably french/belgian footed sulphides. :)

I suspect a lot of badge weights get a date based on when the badge was in comission,
even if you could go to any antique shop today and pick up old badges to put in weights.

How does the colors of the frit compare to colors PY would have used or had access to? 

I wonder - should we try to catalogue as many of these as we can for comparison and research reasons?
Alexander
Norwegian glass collector


Offline Frank

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Re: Wobbly Ysart paperweight ID - help please Kev H!
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2008, 09:46:07 AM »
It looks like it is a sulphide rather than actual badge. Perhaps the badge used dates to/from 1900.
Frank A.
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