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Author Topic: Rock crystal style ........ Help Please.  (Read 1492 times)

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Offline Patrick

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Rock crystal style ........ Help Please.
« on: July 07, 2006, 11:15:20 AM »
Hi, A friend has asked if you could help date these wine glasses and also say who they were made by.
 Shallow cut fluting to bowl ,stem and foot. Many thanks in advance. Patrick.
Ps. Please excuse the rubish pictures, done as he was leaving.
http://i6.tinypic.com/1z6tz4y.jpg
http://i6.tinypic.com/1z6ujoh.jpg
http://i6.tinypic.com/1z6ujwx.jpg
http://i6.tinypic.com/1z6uk3d.jpg


Offline Frank

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Rock crystal style ........ Help Please.
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2006, 07:57:20 PM »
Patrick I converted to links as that many pictures crashed Bernards PC, he might be able to get in now but failing that here is his response:

Quote from: "The Calverton Bard"
Very similar to a Stevens & Williams champagne dated to 1879, Wolfenden pl.13.   If you want me to take a proper look, you will have to either make your images links to .jpg files (not to pre-formatted web pages), or email them as attachments, remembering to email me first with a warning that they are coming.
 
From a fleeting glimpse it looks a lovely example.
Frank A.
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Offline Bernard C

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Rock crystal style ........ Help Please.
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2006, 10:50:31 PM »
Frank — Grateful thanks to you for taking the trouble to help me out.

Patrick — Yes, it is very similar to the champagne illustrated in Wolfenden.   This is an early example of S&W Rock Crystal in Japanese style.   Designed by Joseph Kellar and engraved by Miller, the pattern number of the champagne is 5740 of December 1st, 1879.

The champagne was sold at Sotheby's London on March 3, 1998, and is illustrated in the catalogue.   It was one of two glasses forming Lot 159.

I hope that helps.

Bernard C.  8)
Text and Images Copyright 200414 Bernard Cavalot


Offline KevinH

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Rock crystal style ........ Help Please.
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2006, 10:53:44 PM »
Message on behalf of Bernard deleted - Bernard has gained access.  :D  :D  :D
KevinH


Offline Bernard C

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Rock crystal style ........ Help Please.
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2006, 04:20:23 AM »
Quote from: "KevH"
Message on behalf of Bernard deleted - Bernard has gained access.

Thanks to both you and DenCill for a 5-star backup support system.  :D  :D  :D

Bernard C.  8)
Text and Images Copyright 200414 Bernard Cavalot


Offline Patrick

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Rock crystal style ........ Help Please.
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2006, 10:23:13 AM »
Hi Bernard, Many thanks for your information.................. I have replied to your email . Thanks to all who helped sort out the picture problems....
Regards Patrick.


Offline Dil

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Rock crystal style ........ Help Please.
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2006, 07:12:51 PM »
Quote from: "Bernard"
Patrick — Yes, it is very similar to the champagne illustrated in Wolfenden. This is an early example of S&W Rock Crystal in Japanese style. Designed by Joseph Kellar and engraved by Miller, the pattern number of the champagne is 5740 of December 1st, 1879.

The champagne was sold at Sotheby's London on March 3, 1998, and is illustrated in the catalogue. It was one of two glasses forming Lot 159.


Being relatively new to the Message Board I have been impressed by its power for documenting accurate information. It obviously has the potential for high quality research material providing that information is presented accurately. With this in mind it is important to state that the information Bernard provided was interpreted from the Sotherby's catalogue for the sale of "The Royal Brierley Collection of English Glass" in 1998 and needs qualification as follows:
The glass is similar to that sold under lot 159; it is not as tall.
The pattern number 5740 is for the suite of glasses that includes decanters, fingercups and a range of glasses.
The glass is not necessarily a Champaign glass; a number of glasses in the range had shallow bowls of different diameter and different height stems. Unfortunately the pattern book does not give the height of the different glasses.

As additional information this design was used in 1884 under pattern number 9464 for the more ornate "Pomegranate" design. In this case the work was executed under the direction of John Orchard.


Offline Patrick

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Rock crystal style ........ Help Please.
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2006, 06:45:32 PM »
Hi Dil,  Thanks for the further information.............
He has a total of 5 glasses. 3 Champagnes ( or possibly Sundae Dishes) and 2 other differing size goblets.  I think it may have been one of the goblets I photographed and a close up of maybe the champagne bowl.... It was all of a last mute rush when he was leaving. The heights  are 4 1/2" ( sundae/ champ ) , 4 1/2" and 4 5/8" ( goblets).
Regards Patrick.


Offline Frank

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Rock crystal style ........ Help Please.
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2006, 08:28:12 AM »
Seems to be some confusion here, I could not see anything inaccurate or misleading in Bernard's precis of the published material. Bernard probably did not quote at length from Wolfenden for fear of infringing copyright, he is very particular on copyright abuse.

(Bernard, apologies if I am speaking out of turn here :oops: )
Frank A.
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Offline Bernard C

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Rock crystal style ........ Help Please.
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2006, 09:59:17 AM »
Frank — Thanks — Kind of you to make that point.    I was rather surprised by Dil Hier's comments, but, of course, welcomed the new information on the Orchard Pomegranate design.

Bernard C.  8)
Text and Images Copyright 200414 Bernard Cavalot

 



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