Author Topic: Artist proofs & Seconds  (Read 6061 times)

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Offline Nadine

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« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2006, 03:07:46 PM »
Hello Liz,

I totally agree to the things said above about Artists Proof and 1/1 paperweights.

If have some pictures to show you a artist proof weight and how it will look later.

You found them by clicking this link: http://web888.can13.de/webbrowser/ap/index.html


Picture 1 is the artist proof weight of the Strathearn Series from John Deacons

The second picture shows the artist proof signed base.

Picture 3 is the weight how it was produced later as a limited edition of 25 pieces. It´s signed 1/25

Picture 4 shows a 1/1 which was made as a test for a new design.

Picture 5 shows the signature of this weight.

Probably this might be interesting for you to understand the difference.

Best wishes
Nadine


Offline aa

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Artist proofs & Seconds
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2006, 07:37:02 PM »
Thank you Nadine. It is very helpful to have images to illustrate some of the points made. I note that the artist's proof shown is facetted, whereas the edition of 25 were not. This shows a clear distinction between the AP and the edition. And as a glassmaker myself I think they are superb pieces and very well executed.
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Offline Angela B

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Artists seconds
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2006, 10:27:37 AM »
I think we have covered the issue of artists proofs well between us. But there are still some things that I think need to be said about SECONDS. So here goes.

There are some glass artists, mostly in the US, who sell their paperweights for thousands of dollars. Debbie Tarsitano, Paul Stankard, Chris Buzzini, Victor Trabucco, and Rick Ayotte come to mind. There are several more. Their reputations and the market for their work allows them to make relatively few paperweights to make a good living.

There are other paperweight artists who can and do produce paperweights to a similar high standard, but they do not have the market to sell any of their work for thousands of dollars. Their best paperweights can be bought for less than a thousand dollars, yet they have the same costs of operating a glass studio. Most of the glass artists in New Zealand and in Scotland come into this category.

There is a strong tradition in Scotland to make and sell paperweights for a range of different markets. To my knowledge, this goes back as far as Paul Ysart. John Deacons in his post to the Glass Message Board, said that he makes 15 “Top of the market” paperweights a week.  John works with a small team, including his son, as many other artists do. And the way they work is to produce some of their work for other markets. On average, he wrote, they make 18 middle market paperweights per week and 30 millefiori.

I buy from John every time I visit Scotland (every year) and I know that the price he charges for his best paperweights is some 20 times the price of his cheapest paperweights. This reflects the time spent making the paperweights as well as the skill and artistry involved. His cheaper paperweights are just different. They are not seconds in any way. They are obviously not going to be the same quality as something costing 20 times as much, on which more time has been spent.

I have discussed paperweights with many many glass artists in their studios, and I have often been shown something the artist regarded as an unsatisfactory paperweight. Please take my word for it, that what one person regards as a flaw, somebody else would find quite attractive. And what some artists think is a perfect paperweight leaves a lot to be desired. And I am not talking about John Deacons in this context.

So how did all this aggravation on the Glass Message Board come about?

Clearly some people thought that all of an artist’s work should be of the same standard. But many glass artists do not intended all their work to be  the same standard, and this is an accepted tradition in many parts of the industry.

Some people regarded some features as flaws that others would accept as a feature of hand-made artistry. To complain that a signature cane is not up to standard strikes me as very unfair. The purpose of a signature cane is to identify an artists's work. Like handwriting, the artist can surely make it how he or she likes.

Tiny bubbles and tiny stones are not unusual in glass paperweights, especially those from Europe and the same is true of New Zealand. I don’t doubt that if you pay US$5000 for a paperweight you can demand perfection. But is it a necessary feature of a beautiful paperweight? If you look at a portrait from a 17th century Dutch artist the details may be perfect. So would you say a painting from the later Impressionist school was therefore a “second” because the details were less perfect? Most people would not say this.

As one of the contributors to this thread said, sometimes the imperfections are part of the appeal of a paperweight.  And provided the seller is willing to accept the return of a paperweight the buyer is always in the position of choosing to buy what they like.

This brings me to eBay, which is a very imperfect market. A dealer can put a paperweight on eBay with a reserve of $40 and find that it sells for $500. This is unlike the normal transaction between a collector and a dealer. If a dealer says to you the price for this paperweight is $500 and he has only paid $25 for it and the price from the artist is normally only $25, then he is cheating you and the artist. But if he puts it on eBay with a reserve of $40 and you bid up to $500 then he is not cheating you. It may be that there is a reason for you to bid so highly. Maybe there are no more of these to be found. Maybe you need this one to make up a set. But it is not the dealer’s fault the price went so high.

This is the difficulty with buying and selling on eBay. In general, serious dealers will put a reserve price on a paperweight which is the price below which they would not sell, and the price at which they would be OK about selling. You can take it that the value is not a great deal higher than their reserve price, unless you know something the seller didn’t know about the item he is selling. Scarcity can push a price way above the reserve price; and so can beauty. An especially beautiful paperweight might demand a much higher price than an equivalent quality paperweight from the same artist.

Having said that there are some dealers who don’t put a reserve price on their glass. This may be because they start the auction at the price they are willing to accept, or it may be for some other reason. So you cannot take my suggestion of the reserve price as a hard and fast rule. Just a guide, especially with dealers who do use reserve prices.

I hope my comments help some collectors to take a different view of the  concept of perfection in paperweights.  But at the end of the day, it is each collector's personal choice.
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Offline Liz

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Artist proofs & Seconds
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2006, 12:30:42 PM »
Nadine... a picture truly is worth a thousand words! Thank you for posting yours, they were very helpful!!

Angela...your response, once again, was not only informative but insightful as well! Thank you!!

I learned something new from Nadine's post, I did not know that John Deacons did a "Strathearn" series, when was this done and how many are in the series? I would love to see more pictures!!

Also, when a design is approved, for say a limited edition series, does the same artist complete the series or do others help as well?

As for the demand for "seconds", Jim Hart occasionally will put up for auction some of his paperweights that are not perfect (which he describes in detail in the description) and there is always a steady supply of bidders ! I have no idea if other artists do the same, but I would bet they would have the same response! It would be wonderful if they all did...gives the average Joe/Jane a chance to own a beautiful work of art at a fraction of the normal cost.

Hmmmm...I had already decided to take my collection in the Scottish makers direction, maybe I should add "seconds" as a sub-category! Aside from the obvious advantages, it could be alot of fun!

Thanks again everyone for all of your very helpful reponses, it is greatly appreciated! :D

Liz
Liz


Offline Nadine

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« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2006, 02:34:48 PM »
Hello Liz,

the Strathearn Series from John Deacons was made this year.
Series one (S1 – S12) was made from April till June and Series two (S13 – S24) was made from July till now.
Each weight was made in a limited Editon of 25 pieces.

Here are some pictures of the 24 weights, sorry that I don´t find better ones.
I´m very happy that we have all the 1/25 (and also the 25/25) of the both Series, but as we go to a summer holiday tomorrow, I don´t found the time to take pictures of them, but I will do that soon.

These are really very beautiful weights.

(http://web888.can13.de/webbrowser/s1.jpg)

(http://web888.can13.de/webbrowser/s2.jpg)


@ Angela,
I totally agree to your words regarding selling and buying on ebay, you took the words right out of my mouth :lol:

Best wishes
Nadine


Offline aa

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Artist proofs & Seconds
« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2006, 03:35:12 PM »
Wow!  :D  :D
Hello & Welcome to the Board! Sometimes my replies are short & succinct, other times lengthy. Apologies in advance if they are not to your satisfaction; my main concern is to be accurate for posterity & to share my limited knowledge
For information on exhibitions & events and to see images of my new work join my Facebook group
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Offline Liz

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Artist proofs & Seconds
« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2006, 03:43:18 PM »
:shock: Quite possibly the fastest response on record!!  :D

Nadine, they are beautiful, each and every one!! I really love this series!!
My "want list" just keeps growing longer and longer!!

Have a fabulous holiday!!
Liz
Liz


Offline Liz

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Artist proofs & Seconds
« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2006, 07:30:24 PM »
Actually "Magic" the original question posed by myself regarding a GES paperweight has been answered totally and completely. I sense that you have a different agenda and would very much appreciate you starting your own thread, one that I am not associated with.

Enough is enough!
Liz
Liz


Offline haveneisday

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Artist proofs & Seconds
« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2006, 08:59:37 PM »
Quote from: "Liz"
Actually "Magic" the original question posed by myself regarding a GES paperweight has been answered totally and completely. I sense that you have a different agenda and would very much appreciate you starting your own thread, one that I am not associated with.

Enough is enough!
Liz


Very well put, Liz. I think you speak for the majority of members, some of whom, I have heard, have been put off from posting owing to this spate of aggressive posts. That is a great pity. Members such as yourself, Leni, and others are what makes this board so special. Keep posting.
f you see someone without a smile, give them one of yours! :-)


Offline Leni

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Artist proofs & Seconds
« Reply #19 on: July 26, 2006, 09:22:50 PM »
Quote from: "Liz"
As for the demand for "seconds", Jim Hart occasionally will put up for auction some of his paperweights that are not perfect (which he describes in detail in the description) and there is always a steady supply of bidders !

With regard to Jim's 'seconds' Liz, I often think that, being a perfectionist, Jim is over-critical of the weights he considers to be less than perfect!  I think the prices for which his so-called 'seconds' often sell are an indication that others agree!   :shock: :roll:

As to John Deacons and the 'Strathearn' series, I am very proud to own one - and no doubt will be purchasing more, when I have saved up my pennies!  However, I have noticed that there are minor variations in the designs.  For example, the one I own (no. S8 and 10/25) has very slightly different colours in the flower from some other S8's I have seen.  But after all, it's hand-made and this sort of variation is, IMNSHO  :twisted: , perfectly understandable and indeed acceptable in this type of art-form.
Leni

 

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