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Author Topic: SEEKING IDENTIFICATION OF A PIECE OF GLASSWARE PLEASE  (Read 429 times)

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Offline Baldy

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SEEKING IDENTIFICATION OF A PIECE OF GLASSWARE PLEASE
« on: July 20, 2016, 01:07:16 PM »
I wonder whether anyone may be able to identify a glass vase for me please. It stands around 12 inches high, has a ground pontile mark on the base but no makers marks anywhere. It has the appearance of porcelain but is definitely made of glass. I have attached a picture. Be grateful for any help please.

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Offline flying free

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Re: SEEKING IDENTIFICATION OF A PIECE OF GLASSWARE PLEASE
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2016, 01:47:50 PM »
I love this vase and looked at it when it was for sale (same piece I think?) a good few years ago.
I think I saw references to Christopher Dresser, but I never managed to find a maker for it.  I still keep an eye out in case I come across a similar piece, but have never seen anything remotely similar.
Nice piece. Sorry can't be of more help. Interested to see if anyone else comes up with a maker.
I did wonder if it might be Hungarian or from somewhere a little more obscure than the usual Bohemian/French/English.

m

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Offline glassobsessed

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Re: SEEKING IDENTIFICATION OF A PIECE OF GLASSWARE PLEASE
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2016, 03:22:11 PM »
Likewise, I can not help with the maker, for what it is worth the decoration looks to be inspired by Egypt - papyrus and the like.

John

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Offline Paul S.

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Re: SEEKING IDENTIFICATION OF A PIECE OF GLASSWARE PLEASE
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2016, 03:41:17 PM »
I wonder if the green reacts to the u.v. torch??

As John has already said, the style/form of the decoration appears very 'Egyptianesque' - something found on pieces which date to later than Dresser's period and found not uncommonly on art Deco material in the 1920s when interest in ancient Egypt was on a roll.          This would also tie in with the shape to some extent.                           Dresser had long departed this world by then, and if you look at some of his decoration on materials they show quite complex and formal art nouveau patterns - but guess there is always the exception to the rule.
Dresser's foray in the world of glass can be seen in the form of Clutha and related crude colours and forms, rather than this 'toyland' type of pretty painting.                   
My opinion is that the decoration is rather naïve, so possibly a cottage industry decorator - and perhaps French or Bohemian.

Sorry this is completely unhelpful ;)

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Offline flying free

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Re: SEEKING IDENTIFICATION OF A PIECE OF GLASSWARE PLEASE
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2016, 09:22:18 PM »
Paul, I think I came to the conclusion that the mention of Christopher Dresser in the previous sale was because of similarities to designs he did on pottery/porcelain rather than to his glass pieces. I think Ault used a lot of this 'aesthetic' green.
This might be an example of a similar pattern (see right hand side on link)
http://historicaldesign.com/product/christopher-dresser-cloisonne-vase/

Which might be the basis for the reference given.  However I never found anything to back up that this particular piece might have been anything to do with him.
The French did use the brown enamelling btw.  However this is all circumspect - I have never found anything to match this shape or design and have been looking for about three years or more. So really I have no idea at all :)

I'm also curious about the symbolism of the outstretched arms clutching or pointing to firstly a red flower and then a blue one?

Is it possible for OP to post a picture of the base and a very clear close up photograph of the enamelling please?  I'm interested to see the quality of the enamel.  Enamel decoration often looks not great in photographs,however when you have the pieces in hand, they often look much much better :)
m

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Offline Ivo

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Re: SEEKING IDENTIFICATION OF A PIECE OF GLASSWARE PLEASE
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2016, 08:02:44 AM »
Looks to me the enamel is cold enamel, not applied and fired. If you look closly at the blue zigzags on a brown field you can  see the brush strokes. Not sure what the bunches of cornflowers are doing there, or the cinderella pumpkin wagons -  but this is a well decorated vase in a cheerful colour which may have originated in Belgium, Hungary or Germany, to mention but a few.

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Offline flying free

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Re: SEEKING IDENTIFICATION OF A PIECE OF GLASSWARE PLEASE
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2016, 08:21:41 AM »
Ivo I think the designs may be taken from the Christopher Dresser pattern books or similar inspiration/era of interest.
http://www.achome.co.uk/pictorial/sub8.htm

Just to add this link which shows that design was by Owen Jones
http://www.victorianweb.org/art/design/jones/6.html

(Source,Eygptian (sic) No. 1 
Designer: Owen Jones, 1809-1874
Lithographer: Francis Bedford, 1816-1894
1865
Manufacturer: Jackson & Graham
The Grammar of Ornament
The New York Public Library;
Digital ID: 1540653
[You may use this image without prior permission for any scholarly or educational purpose as long as you (1) credit the New York Public Library and (2) link your document to this URL. — GPL])

Please note that when searching the above they have spelled Egyptian incorrectly.

The design above also shows hands holding the stems  :)

I think it needs closeup photographs to determine the enamelling.  Also a photo of the base of the vase to determine the pontil mark/finish.
It is not impossible that this could be 19th century imho. 

m

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Offline Paul S.

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Re: SEEKING IDENTIFICATION OF A PIECE OF GLASSWARE PLEASE
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2016, 08:31:29 AM »
looking around for some/any other group or period with which to try and make a comparison, I've looked at some of the pieces in Ruth A. Forsythe's booklet, where you can see the extent to which the 1920/30s were influenced by this Nile-based form of decoration.     Unfortunately though as far as Forsythe goes it's almost exclusively on ceramics that she shows this Egyptian style, and I think safe to say none of it carries any symbolism - just rather plain and obvious middle eastern BC designs.
I agree the symbolism of the outstretched arms/hands is puzzling  -  quite unusual  -  but may just have been a quirky approach by the artist.
Obviously the piece here has nothing to do with cloisonné, nor the aesthetic movement - wasn't that all about the Japanese and Whistler :-\
Your right hand side in the link is of course 'Egyptianesque', but I don't see any connection between the two  -  Carter hadn't yet been to the valley of the Kings - and although that event was a major reason for palm fronds and weird looking cats etc. appearing in art, some of the reason for it's appearance was a resurgence of the Empire period, when Napoleon toured the middle east relieving the natives of their ancient relics.

The immediate appearance of this piece strikes as odd  -  it appears to lack any counterpart in the glass shapes in Forsythe's booklet, which shows pieces from 1918 - 1938 ish  -  the decoration lacks any similarity too, with Forsythe's pieces, so appears out of character with material from Czechoslovakia - but maybe a one off perhaps, and have to remember that art deco shapes are many and varied.

I'm still of the opinion that the outline shape of this vase combined with the Nile-related style of decoration puts it post 1918 - and quite possibly, unfortunately, you may never progress further.

On the face of it this looks to have lived a sheltered life - the painting appears very good still  -  I don't mean to be a 'doubting Thomas' but is there a chance this is a modern production??

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Offline flying free

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Re: SEEKING IDENTIFICATION OF A PIECE OF GLASSWARE PLEASE
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2016, 08:36:52 AM »
 Paul, do you not see a link between the design on the vase and the photograph I've added above?
That design was done in the 19th century.  I'm not suggesting the vase definitely was 19th century though.
It does look like revival shape and design as well (1920s? perhaps)
Maybe American?  For example this is a Smith Brothers vase
http://www.thegildedcurio.com/item-American-749.html
although couldn't find any in this colour and they appear to have their 'body' colour enameled onto white glass.
m

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Offline Paul S.

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Re: SEEKING IDENTIFICATION OF A PIECE OF GLASSWARE PLEASE
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2016, 09:08:52 AM »
sorry m, obviously brain as well as body not functioning too great just now - you're right, it does appear that the Egyptianesque influence goes back further than I had believed.   Probably shouldn't get involved in areas I know little about ;D :-[

As you've already spent three years searching unsuccessfully so far, you may have to give in on this one, and admit defeat - it does happen on occasions ;) ;)

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